Wednesday, 30 June 2010

Two faced Tories



Muslim girls, yesterday

I notice that Philip Hollobone has proposed a Private Member's Bill called Face Coverings (Regulation).

Now obviously my own vested interests to remain anonymous in public are paramount, but since when did the state start deciding what people can wear?

I await the howls from the usual suspects that "a man dressed in a burqa could rob a bank". He still can even if the wearing of the burqa is banned, except the usual method of disguise is a pair of tights. Should we ban them too?

If Muslims want to wear burqas, so what? It does not adversly affect me in any way whatsoever. I know many Christian women who prefer not to get their tits out on the beach, are we to employ clothing inspectors next? When does this stop?

If a shop refuses to serve you wearing a crash helmet, balaclava, hoodie or Burqa, then shop elsewhere. Oh, and Parliament, get the fuck out of my wardrobe. It is my face, it belongs to me, I was born with it and what I do with it is my business, not yours. That includes not showing it to you on demand, just as I do not have to give you my fingerprints because you are curious what they look like.

Ye GODS, give me strength. Here's a picture of a filthy criminal......




79 comments:

Sir George of Formby said...

Turned out nice again...

caesars wife said...

ahh but is the burkha form of women repression ?

Old Holborn said...

I could say the same about nail polish...

Gates Of Vienna said...

Fantastic fucking news, you worry about your imaginary plasticine libertarian fantasy world OH, and the rest of us can worry about the potential destruction of the West a century hence.

Clash of civilizations, and we are fucking losing at the minute.

Every possible measure should be used to turn the tide.

Old Holborn said...

Tell me exactly, GoV, when you will stop telling people under law what to wear.

Hats? Shoes? Skirts too short? Skirts too long? Beards? Long hair? Short hair?

I need to know EXACTLY. Can Germans still wear funny jackets? Can a Frenchman living here wear a beret? What about kilts south of Hadrians Wall? Hassidic Jews still allowed in Covent Garden?

Gates Of Vienna said...

I will stop when the Burka is banned ;)

But if any other item of clothing which deliberately represents an attempt to destroy this nation state and set up a seperate state within it appears in the future, I would ban that too.

There is a reason the swastika is banned in Germany.

Ideals are all very well, but will not get you far when the very real situation arises that the goatfuckers start to gain the majority within constituencies, within city boundaries, within counties, within then nation.

What do you think they will ban?

Its make your mind up time I am afraid, and I know you do not live in an area where this is likely to affect you anyway - yet.

Peperbarmi said...

Man in a mask said,

"Oh, and Parliament, get the fuck out of my wardrobe. It is my face, it belongs to me, I was born with it and what I do with it is my business, not yours."

Heheheh couldnt have put it better meself,of course its nothing new,the fucking government is always looking for ways to make us proles conform to their standardised ideal,being outside the main stream is dangerous in their eyes.

The kilt was banned after the Jacobite rebelion for forty years,until the elites of the time realised the highlanders made good soldiers, then it was brought back,in fact encouraged,nothing binds a group of soldiers together like a shared warrior
culture,as long as they are being useful.

Of course the twats over in Euroland are falling over themselves to ban it,its for the womans own good of course, busy body fucking nannies are swarming all over it,but it never fucking stops there does it,scarves,hoodies,T shirts with slogans,fucking hell the cunts just wont stop till we all walk around like Kim Jong Ill clones,except for them of course....bastards!.

Spicey!

Old Holborn said...

"But if any other item of clothing which deliberately represents an attempt to destroy this nation state and set up a seperate state within it appears in the future, I would ban that too."

The burqa is not designed to overthrow the nation state, trust me. Any more than a "god save the queen" T-Shirt by the Sex Pistols or a che Guevara hoodie was.

Now minaret building on the other hand....

Kit said...

Ordinarily, i'd agree with you, OH. However, this isn't really about 'people robbing banks'. It is about a cultural war with regressive, primitive Islam.

A law banning the Burka in the name of marginalising primitive Islam in my country would have my support. Primitive Islam is antithetical to our traditions of individual liberty. It seem ironic, but to protect our liberties we have to curtail some of the freedom of action of aggressive, primitive Islam.

Gawain Towler said...

OH, I am with the Gates on this one. The Facial covering that is being talked about here is not in any way the same as those other items that you mention.

What is more you know it. To pretend otherwise would suggest a cultural and historical ignorance t aht I know you don't posses. So it would appear that in this one instance that you are indulging in libertarian posing, rather than a rational appraisal of the situation.

Would you really be happy if ypourchild in primary school was taught by a woman in a Burka? Really?

Gates Of Vienna said...

The burqa is not designed to overthrow the nation state, trust me. Any more than a "god save the queen" T-Shirt by the Sex Pistols or a che Guevara hoodie was.

The fact you are comparing the burka to a pistols shirt shows how little you grasp its impact, not just to the women who wear it, but more to the cities where it is becoming frighteningly commonplace in, its mention is simple, we are here, we are taking over. This is no longer your country.

Woman on a Raft said...

its mention is simple, we are here, we are taking over.

We stand not a cat in hell's chance of making more than a highly specific ban stick, legally. Head of Legal already went through this. He dislikes the burkha, but even he admits that the on-the-streets expression, the one which concerns you, is impossible to bring within the scope of general legislation.

We could, for instance, ban burkhas in certain work situations but as the workers would just put the covering on to go home, and the effect of the ban would be largely lost.

For the next part of the argument I have to refer to last summer's panic over elastic bands which were supposed to have certain sexualized meanings. Some people seemed to think that symbolism is hard-coded in to a packet of elastic bands, but it is not. You can de-code them in which ever way you like. You can re-code them. Write your own significance on what it means when you wear a red elastic band; it will be just as true as what the manufacturer said.

To apply this to the problem at hand; if you don't like the burkah, subvert it. Wear one. Simply appropriate it and re-code the symbolism.

Make one out of silly material with frilly lace. Make one with a face on it, only be careful that it doesn't look like a badly-made blackface minstrel. Make one with a picture of a false beard on it. Have one photo-printed with your own face. Sew one with a little house on it; windows for the eyes and a door where the mouth is. Sell the space for advertising.

If asked why you are wearing it, say there are two reasons. 1) It is your religion and you are a Gaiaist and 2) You regard it as the best form of sunscreen as it is considered dangerous to show your face to Ra the Sun God.

Anonymous said...

Gates of Vienna sounds like a ZIoNAZI.
I'm sure he'd claim victimisation and demand compensation if Kippas were banned.
A Burqua ban is what he wants, anything to keep dumb Goy and Muslims at each other's throats while he profits and we die fighting the enemies of his ZIoNAZI racist Reich.

Old Holborn said...

Do they wear the burqa in Egypt? Morocco? Syria? Lebanon? Turkey? Algeria etc., etc.,

No, Muslim women do not and no law forces them to.

If you have a problem with women hiding their faces then you have simply have a problem that no law can cure. Further details available at any Amish commmunity.

Strange how everyone moans that the Burqa is invading the high street and will demolish our nation state, yet tuck into kebabs, naan breads and baltis on their way home from the pub to watch Borat on the telly

Anonymous said...

Its not the Muslim in front of you
to cause concern,its the yellow
livered ,two timing,limpwristed,
slimeball liberal tosspot behind you who slithers out of every
stinking cess pool ,thats the
degenerate ,depraved filth to keep an eye on.

Toquemada

Gates Of Vienna said...

"Do they wear the burqa in Egypt? Morocco? Syria? Lebanon? Turkey? Algeria etc., etc.,

No, Muslim women do not and no law forces them to."

The burka is banned in Morocco Egypt and Turkey Fuckwit.

Anonymous said...

OK, if you ban the Burqua then ban Kippas too. In fact, I find all religious symbols offensive as they insult the intellect. And white socks.

BTW, I smoked inside the Heathrow airport terminal the other day and no one dared say a thing. People forget that there is very little enforcing all these bans and it's only cowards scared to ignore them who are affected. I think an impromptuo mass smoke-in inside public places is in order.

Anarcho S said...

I am half Egyptian and it is not banned. You are the fuckwit mate.

At the end of the day you are just as bad as them in that you feel you have some kind of moral right to tell a woman what to wear to suit your own cultural beliefs.

It works oth ways, look at the over-sexualisation of women in popular culture, which pushes young girls into a certain idal of womanhood. It is the same assumed right of imposing your views on a women's dress to fit you percieved cultural idea.

You have no right to tell a woman what to wear.It is Patriarchal bullshit to say otherwise. It is a woman's right to choose what she wears unless it is inappropriate for a particular setting

i.e wearing a burkha or being dressed like a total slut to teach children.

Anonymous said...

Implying the Burkah is mentioned at any point in the Koran and is anything other than a overt symbol of arab separatism and domination...

Old Holborn said...

To all of you happy to ban the burqa, please watch THIS

Gates Of Vienna said...

"At the end of the day you are just as bad as them in that you feel you have some kind of moral right to tell a woman what to wear to suit your own cultural beliefs."

Thats right, because its my fucking country, get it, MY country, that my fathers and forefathers have built and died for over a thousand years and I refuse to hand it over to these cunts because of hand wringing tossers like you.

You can line up with them if you like and when it all goes off I will gladly shoot you.

Matt Davies said...

Shame, I usually have a lot of time for Holobone. But you are right on this one OH.

Covering your face is not a crime.

Anarcho S said...

wow. your even more of a small minded idiot than I thought.

I hate the "handwringers" too, but when "it all goes off" I will stand with anyone who really believes in true freedom and opposes the parochial idiocy you are spouting and is willing to fight for it.

Wipe your mouth clean of the Bullshit when your done mate.

RantinRab said...

To all of you who think that the proposed ban is about the burqa, you have spectacularly missed the point.

If it happens, next thing will be licences for wearing a halloween costume or photo ID pinned onto your biker leathers.

Rebel Saint said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Rebel Saint said...

OH, thanks for the link to the video. Didn't have time to watch it all, but isn't the counter-argument contained within his first very first statement when he says, "The law should ban only those things which threaten a free society".

The burqa is more than a simple item of clothing ... it is a statement of an ideology.

And the state does already interfere in your wardrobe - if your clothes reveal too much flesh, as opposed to concealing too much flesh, they could possibly be considered indecent (unless you're taking part in a gay pride parade of course when it's perfectly acceptable!!)

It does also present incredible practical problems - not just at banks. You should come to the gates of certain primary schools in Bradford. How the hell the teachers know which child goes to which burqa I have no idea!! And driving instructors ... and bus passes etc

The reason you wear your mask is to remain anonymous. Which is fine as an individual or even as a protest. But imagine if a whole section of the community wanted to conceal their identity not only from the state but from every other section of the community too. Furthermore, not only that but it reinforces & endorses the idea that women can be considered as mere chattel, without an identity or will of their own.

The burqa isn't merely clothing, it is worn as a symbol. And symbols are incredibly powerful things.

Old Holborn said...

All clothing is a symbol

However simply stating that all women who wear the burqa are "chattels" and oppressed sounds exactly the same as a Muslim stating that all women who show their legs are prostitutes.

The clothes I wear are a statement of an ideology, the clothes an Eskimo wears are a statement of an ideology and yes, the clothes a Muslim wears are a statement of an ideology.

When you ban the Burqa, you think you will be banning an ideology, specifically one that you hate. You won't. Amymore than the Ayatolla banning mini skirts changed the women of Iran

Ver Kids Are Revolting said...

Anarcho

When it all goes off not doubt you will be playing bongos and blowing a whistle at a mung bean fuelled carnival in support of a religion which despises you.

Old Holborn said...

I've never seen an Anarchist do that. Play bongos I mean. Bass yes, but bongos? Never

Kerry McHolborn said...

What amuses me about this post is that it betrays all the hallmarks of what OH used to refer to as the righteous, taking a stance on the basis of a pre determined and unquestionable morality in order to create a dividing line against which all criticism can be dismissed from a moralistic and sentimental position rather reasoned and logical argument about the situation which actually exists in the country.

Anyone who wants to ban the burka is 'ignorant' and unable to attain the lofty heights of intellect of those who graciously allow the muzzies to go about their colonization unhindered.

Pure righteousness.

Broxted said...

I shall shortly go to the gym or Twink Central as I call it.....Oooh matron, Need to start packing for my Magaluf trip too. Why is the Euro at a piss poor rate, why are Ryanair male cabin crew such prema donna's. Not long now and hopefully I will be laying by a pool in Magaluf soaking up a few exotic cocktails and the culture.
May I say a big thank you to the Benefits agency here in Belfast and all UK tax payers.

Anonymous said...

"I await the howls from the usual suspects that "a man dressed in a burqa could rob a bank". He still can even if the wearing of the burqa is banned, except the usual method of disguise is a pair of tights. Should we ban them too?"

When you see a man walking down the street which has a bank in it with a pair of tights over his head, you know he isn't collecting for the Red Cross.

Anarcho S said...

Hippies piss me off and will never change anything, they are a spent force. Flower children need to grow some bloody thorns.

I'm not going to get drawn into a conversation about what I'll be doing when the supossed shit hits the fan. Out of respect to OH, I will stay on topic here.

What do you and GoV even mean by "when it all goes off?" Some sort of secret muslim signal when all sleepers are activated and all Europe's muslims will rise up and overthrow the state and impose shariah law once they have outbred all the WASPS?

http://www.thegreenarrow.co.uk/writers/theinformer/2140-be-afraid-be-very-very-afraid

People like you and these nuts above who fuel you^^ are one step away from the tin foil hat brigade. The difference is they are harmless, you arbitrarily demonise an entire group of people and accuse them of some sort of massive muslim conspiracy....

I am no friend of Islam but criticize it logically and for the right reasons not some sort of pseudo clash of civilisations nonsense.

Old Holborn said...

Strangely, I don't feel the same when I see a man walking down the road with a crash helmet on. Or a hoodie.

Quick, ban them.

Old Holborn said...

anarcho S,

You need not show me any respect. No other fucker does.

Trust me, when this "hippy" goes off grid (and he will shortly) the last thing you'll find will welcome you at my front door is flowers in my hair.

Gates Of Vienna said...

"What do you and GoV even mean by "when it all goes off?" Some sort of secret muslim signal when all sleepers are activated and all Europe's muslims will rise up and overthrow the state and impose shariah law once they have outbred all the WASPS?"

Islam has created wars, civil conflict and unrest within every country it has been able to create a significant minority in, ever.

Islamic countries have brought war to every nation they have shared a border with.

Islam is not a religion like Christianity or Judaism or Hinduism, it is a political belief system and instruction book to spread Islam and defeat its enemies, it is explicitly stated in the Koran, that is its purpose.

You don't think it will happen here? You don't think we can become Bosnia or India or Nigeria?

Because our Govt will protect us?!!

How many times were UK based Muslims the subject of news reports over their problems and demands and actions 30 years ago?

I can not remember anything about them ever being in the papers or media, the first sign of problems was the Satanic verses.

Since then the Muslim population has increased tenfold, now not a day goes by that I do not read about their anger, their demands, that they are not on the news shouting and burning things.

You think that is going to die down? get better?

It will only get worse, and worse, and they will only increase.

Anarcho S said...

I definitely wont be going to the financial districts, seats of power, my workplace and CCTV central control to go and plant some fucking Soy beans either.

Anarcho S said...

"How many times were UK based Muslims the subject of news reports over their problems and demands and actions 30 years ago?"

Funnily enough they hadn't quite realised the extent of the wealth they were sat on top of in the middle east and had no need to de-humanise them to get dull witted morons like yourself to support imperialist foriegn policies.

Anonymous said...

What's that chap's name?

Hollowbrain wasn't it?

Anonymous said...

Beware of lying hatemongering Israel fans like "Gates of Vienna".
Zionists want Goy morons to have a Kristallnacht against Muslims as well as trashing their countries.

Gates Of Vienna said...

"Funnily enough they hadn't quite realised the extent of the wealth they were sat on top of in the middle east and had no need to de-humanise them to get dull witted morons like yourself to support imperialist foriegn policies."

Riiiight, that would be before or after they rammed two planes into New York would it?

Or waz dat der Joooz?

Anarcho S said...

Have you ever asked yourself why?

No one is going to commit a terrible act like that for trivial reasons.
Years of supporting the racist borderline genocidal policies of Israel. The U.S props them up and supplies them directly with the weaponry to use. You seem to sincerely believe that Muslims are affecting your "way of life" in the U.K. But have you ever considered that it may work the other way round?

If you are genuinly intersted to understand the anger that causes that sort of attrocity I would recomend an excellent series of documentaries made by Robert Fisk ( a British War and middle east correspondent of almost 30 years) in the 90s, before 9/11. Entitled "From Beirut to Bosnia." He basiclly travels around predominantly muslim countries enquiring why there is a lot of hate towards the west.

He ends the the whole series by saying something bad is going to happen unless the west changes its policy towards the middle east, which he claims haunts him to this day.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2545407262514496562#

(The full series is on video.google.com)

Rebel Saint said...

OH, I think you're allowing your own decision to wear a mask & remain anonymous to cloud your judgement on this issue. There is no equivalence between your mask wearing and a burqa.

You wrote a piece a few months back about how upon your visit to some Eastern Bloc country you were struck by how everyone wore a uniform. You said,"my logic reasoned that if the State is all powerful, it needs uniforms to visually identify authority over the Populace. To keep them in their place. As useful, productive idiots."

The Burqa isn't a mere piece of clothing. It is a uniform. Replace the word "state" in the quote above for "Allah" and you'll get the point. The burqa is the uniform of an all powerful, control based ideology. Some women choose to wear it "willingly" as a sign of their subservience and acceptance of the ideology in just the same way that all those PCSOs & wardens "willingly choose" to wear them.

You choose to wear a mask to make your statement. But you seem to believe that the burqa is a fashion statement - equivalent to wearing a hoody or a mini-skirt. It is no such thing. It is more like wearing a military uniform. Once you put it on, to take it off again is the equivalent of going AWOL.

I share you libertarianism in regard to making laws. And I'm not convinced that banning the burqa would solve the greater underlying issues - but it would at least say, "We will stand up to your ideology. We will not secede our laws & cultures to your inferior, alien ones." I'll remind you what the opening statement of that video you linked to said,"The law should ban only those things which threaten a free society".

The burqa doesn't threaten our free society, but it is the uniform of an ideology which does.

Anonymous said...

Could we not just ban fucking Muslims full stop and have done with it ?
Job application question
For Muslim applicants, what is your greatest ambition (besides fucking a white woman)?

Anarcho S said...

Do you idiotic "muzzie conspiracy" people seriously think the problems of this country can be blamed on Islam? Even if you got rid of every muslim/brown person you don't like would anything fundamentally change? No.

Banning a person? you've given me a good chuckle this evening.

Pot Kettle Black said...

@Anarcho S ... it's not just a conspiracy. They've written it all down, produced youtube videos, produced websites, blown up buildings, trains & buses just to remove any doubt.

scunnert said...

The state has no business in the wardrobes of the nation. It's not the burqa that should be banned but that insidious ideology called Islam!

sike said...

Sumptuary laws were enacted in many centuries and countries. In Elizabethan England, these laws attempted to restrict the sumptuousness of dress in order to curb extravagance, protect fortunes, and make clear the necessary and appropriate distinctions between levels of society.

The concern was that letting anyone wear just anything must lead inexorably to moral decline. If you couldn't tell a milkmaid from a countess at a glance, the very fabric of society might unravel.


from http://www.elizabethan.org/sumptuary/index.html

see also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sumptuary_law#The_Islamic_world for some examples from islam

sike said...

In most times and places these sumptuary laws were ineffectual.

Where's me sickbag Alice? said...

The man responsible? Read on:

Blair named as Liberty Medal winner



Tony Blair has been named by the US National Constitution Centre as the winner of its prestigious Liberty Medal for 2010.



The former prime minister will receive his gong - awarded for "his steadfast commitment to conflict resolution" - from the Centre's chairman Bill Clinton on September 13 in Philadelphia.

Previous recipients of the medal include Nelson Mandela, who won jointly with his predecessor as South African president FW de Klerk in 1993, Mikhail Gorbachev, Lech Walesa, US presidents Jimmy Carter, George Bush Sr and Bill Clinton, U2 singer Bono and film-maker Steven Spielberg.

Announcing the award, which comes with 100,000 US dollars in prize money, the Centre cited Mr Blair's role in advancing peace in Northern Ireland, his work as an international envoy in the Middle East, his involvement in initiatives to improve governance in Africa and tackle climate change, and the work of the Tony Blair Faith Foundation.

Mr Clinton said: "It was a privilege to work with my friend Tony Blair to help end 30 years of sectarian violence and broker a lasting peace in Northern Ireland, to stop the killing in and mass exodus from Kosovo, and to develop policies that would improve living conditions for people in both our countries.

"Now, as a private citizen, Tony continues to demonstrate the same leadership, dedication and creativity in promoting economic opportunity in the Middle East and the resolution of conflicts rooted in religion around the world, and is building the capacity of developing nations to govern honestly and effectively."

Thanking the Centre, Mr Blair said: "Freedom, liberty and justice are the values by which this medal is struck. Freedom, liberty and justice are the values which I try to apply to my work on governance in Africa and on preparing the Palestinians for statehood. They are the values which drive the work of my faith foundation as we try to show that people of different faiths can live together constructively in peace and harmony."

Anonymous said...

----------------------------
Gates Of Vienna said...
...

Riiiight, that would be before or after they rammed two planes into New York would it?

Or waz dat der Joooz?
----------------------------------

"Da Jews" (zionazis, actually) knew it was going to happen and most of the alleged hijackers are still alive, so who did it?
The way you rave about the chosen ones and hatemonger against Muslims makes me think you are a liar and not british at all. I say your real country is the zionazi colony of religious supremacists calling itself Israel.

BTW, large numbers of Jews can't stand Zionists either.

Anonymous said...

scunnert,

The state has no business in the wardrobes of the nation. It's not the burqa that should be banned but that insidious ideology called Islam!


Yes, but why have we allowed Islam to become a problem in this country in the first place? The same people who moan about banning the burqa now, would have been the first to moan if Britain started banned muslim immigration at any point after the war.

People who follow the destructive ideologies of Liberalism, Libertarianism and Laissez-faire Capitalism, will not see beyond their dogma, and have a child like naivety as to the long term consequences (for the rest of us) of what they promote.

Titus Oates' Scrotal Blisters said...

In answer to your question OH. There have been laws regarding dress in this country for around about as long as we have had laws.

However, specifically to this case I suggest you read up on the 'Black Acts'.

A very interesting bit of history from a general common law libertarian standpoint. Also very relevant to your discussion here I think.

Anonymous said...

Freedom to wear, or not, clothing of one's choice?
http://stop-racist-human-skin-phobia.org/

the beast of clerkenwell said...

Tights should be banned
Stockings only

I find the burkha quite sexy and those Muslim bitches are all gagging for a good seeing to
Just walk up Edgeware Rd and catch the eye of one and you see what I mean

jdennis_99 said...

Religions are not the causes of war, they are used as excuses by people. And Islam is not the first religion to blur the lines with politics - virtually all politics has its roots in religion. In Medieval Europe, Kings only ruled their countries with the permission of the Pope. MPs still say prayers before business in the House of Commons starts.

The point is, banning something doesn't stop it from happening. The English banned the Welsh language after conquering Wales - it survived. Oliver Cromwell abolished the Monarchy after the Civil War - it was reinstated. Swastikas and Holocaust-denial are banned in Germany, but there are still neo-Nazis there.

the Burka is a symbol - interpreted as a symbol of female subservience, and an insidious ideology aimed at bringing down the free world. Attacking that symbol is self-destructive in 2 ways:
- It only attacks the symbol, and not the concepts that it supposedly represents;
- It erodes the principles of the free world, and therefore destroys what we are trying to protect.

George Monsoon said...

I say let anyone wear what the fuck they like. The problems arise when someone is given special priveleges or concessions due to what they wear, just in case the normal rules "offend".

fuck that.. wear what you like, just follow the fucking rules of society and if you dont like them fuck off somewhere else..

Anonymous said...

According to Brigitte Gabriel,whilst being interviewed on Moxnews.com,at least 110 "honour killings" are down to refusal to wear the burqa (here in the UK,not shitistan)
There are quite a few items of clothing that offend me,Che (mass murderer) Guevara T-shirts for a start,and I don't like seeing profanities or porno images on T-shirts either,OK at adults only venues,just about,but not out in the streets where kids are present.
Not only should the burqa be banned,but also islam,which is far more dangerous than Nazism.
Urban11

graphypo said...

Anon 12:05,

A bit of a straw man argument there. Burqas are not the problem the nutjobs who think their daughter or wife not wearing one is reason enough to kill them, are. Deal with the problem rather than a symptom of the problem.

The way to do that is to support the liberty of those who choose to wear what they wish despite community and family pressure rather than stamp on everyone's freedom. I suspect that logic is lost on many legislators. The argument usually reduces to stopping people wearing burqas or not stopping people wearing burqas, it never progresses to *supporting* people's liberty to dress as they wish up to and including those who are under pressure to wear burqas and choose not to.

It is a negative viewpoint driving bad legislation rather than a positive viewpoint driving good legislation.

Feminists loudly proclaimed it was a women's right to chose an abortion, why are they much less eager to support a woman's right to dress as she chooses when it comes to burqa?

As an aside: if this face covering bill did get passed, no doubt there would be exceptions for people covering their faces as part of a recognised uniform ie Police. It couldn't just be an exclusion on safety ground because it would be a doddle for a burqa clad woman to say she'd be in danger if she didn't wear it.

Anonymous said...

grapypo,
the problem won't go away until islam is a distant memory.The only way we can save ourselves from this cancer is to throw it back to where it came from,even the moderate ones.The only commenter on this thread who KNOWS what he is talking about is Gates Of Vienna
Urban11

Anonymous said...

Unfortunately our dopey middle classes with their obsession with the third world have made Islam very much our problem now.

And while they can and will scarper off to places like France (not to the Banlieues, obviously!), it’ll be the rest of us left holding the can and facing the ethnic displacement and civil unrest.

Fucking middle class bastards.

Maturecheese said...

OH, Islam is NOT our friend and I think GOV is right on this subject and you are not seeing the wood for the trees. like most peoples opinions sometimes I agree with them and other times not and in this instance I feel you are completely wrong.

Maturecheese said...

I think what a lot of you Libertarians don't see is our culture slowly being eradicated by salami tactics. Slowly but surely thing that were normal and inoffensive are now illegal or deemed offensive. It seems that the most offended are those of other cultures. I am also a true Englishman ( not a recent immigrant but someone whose family goes back hundreds of years) and I could weep at the state of England today and the lilly livered Bastards that profess to represent us.

Old Holborn said...

I am fully aware that Islam is not my friend.

Banning the burqa will no more make islam go away than banning short trousers or choirboy outfits will stop paedophilia by Ron Broxted.

Islam is a mindset. Tackle the mindset and the Burqa will vanish all on it's own.

Anonymous said...

''The burqa is not designed to overthrow the nation state, trust me. Any more than a "god save the queen" T-Shirt by the Sex Pistols or a che Guevara hoodie was.''

Disagree,

ITS ALL part of the cultural power

Betty Swallocks said...

My friends at the Masjid will not be pleased with this insult to the true believers of the true faith.

Allah be praised.

Anonymous said...

Qur'an:9:88 "The Messenger and those who believe with him, strive hard and fight with their wealth and lives in Allah's Cause."
Qur'an:9:5 "Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war."
Qur'an:9:112 "The Believers fight in Allah's Cause, they slay and are slain, kill and are killed."
Qur'an:9:29 "Fight those who do not believe until they all surrender, paying the protective tax in submission."
Ishaq:325 "Muslims, fight in Allah's Cause. Stand firm and you will prosper. Help the Prophet, obey him, give him your allegiance, and your religion will be victorious."
Qur'an:8:39 "Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah."
Qur'an:8:39 "So fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief [non-Muslims]) and all submit to the religion of Allah alone (in the whole world)."
Qur'an:8:7 "Allah wished to confirm the truth by His words: 'Wipe the infidels out to the last.'"
Qur'an:8:12 "Your Lord inspired the angels with the message: 'I am with you. Give firmness to the Believers. I will terrorize the unbelievers. Therefore smite them on their necks and every joint and incapacitate them. Strike off their heads and cut off each of their fingers and toes.'"
Qur'an 48:11 "The desert Arabs who lagged behind [in fighting] will say to you (Muhammad): 'We were engaged in (looking after) our flocks and our families.' We have prepared for them a Blazing Fire!"
Qur'an 48:17 "There is no blame for the blind, nor is it a sin for the lame, nor on one ill if he joins not in the fighting. But he who retreats, (Allah) will punish him with a painful doom."

Obviously islam is a peaceful religion that just wants to be left alone...

Stanley Clitoris said...

Bit different from the Rotary Club.

Old Holborn said...

Tell you what

If you want a pissing contest over how many victims of your religion vs how many victims of their religion....

And us athiests trying to sort it all out after the killing is finished

Anonymous said...

The difference is OH,Christianity preaches love and peace (I know its followers should listen harder) and islam mandates hate and war. I suspect Mao,Stalin,Hitler,Pol Pot,Mugabe etc were all atheists,so your argument about peaceful atheists isn't too sound.
Urban11

Old Holborn said...

Urban 11

Love and peace?

Don't go there. I give you Leveticus and Deutoronomy. I give you "the Lord's Army". I give you Catholicism. I give you the bible Belt.

You don't need to defend Christianity to attack Islam.

Anarcho S said...

I disagree with a lot of economic stuff you talk about OH but you are spot on when it comes to these sorts of discussions, kudos.


P.S Urban11 and GoV are idiots, I'm not going to bother arguing with them anymore. It won't help anything at all, you are two blinkered like horses in your parochial idiotic mindset and don't have the humilty to even consider that you might not know everything there is to know.....

don't like it said...

It is a form of female imprisonment , and there are women who are being forced to wear it against their will ( saudi arabia, Afghanistan )
2. It suggests that men cannot or should not control themselves - Muslim men have to learn British ways!
3. It frightens people - I have seen little children crying in a lift when a burqu entered
4. It is, as you say, not done to cover your face in public, as it is offensive, and you cannot take part in normal life with it on.
5. It is ridiculous that we should all be threatened with indecent exposure at airports, for the sake of the religion who insist on this anti social cover up.
6. It is a security risk, and has been used to evade the law.
7. Women who wear one cannot and should not be in jobs which require them to talk to others. Even Jack Straw requested it was removed in his surgery.
8. It is being used as a form of 'two fingers' to our culture deliberately, by women who where born and brought up here.
9. Many Muslims have come to Britain to escape such an item. Look how the Taliban used it during their terror.
10 It is a form of dress that says, we belong to another culture, we are not going to integrate, and we will take over your country whenever we get the opportunity !!

Old Holborn said...

Above

what utter drivel

now apply the same to Goths

Anonymous said...

OH,
last time I looked Leviticus and Deutoronomy were Old Testament. Not that I'm an expert on Christianity,but apart from booting over a money lenders' table,Jesus led a peaceful life,and constantly preached love and peace. If everyone in your neighbourhood decided to follow Christ's example,apart from perhaps a bit of earache,you'd have no problems. On the other hand,if they decided to emulate Mohammad's example,you'd be dead,and your wife and daughters raped.
Urban11

Roger Thornhill said...

The burqa should not be banned, but the freedom to refuse to interact with one so adorned should not be, also.

Exemption - State monopolies, which are imposed by force and so prevents alternatives.

p.s. skeulles and hosbiddles should not be State (de facto) monopolies.

Ted said...

WTF, we are now arguing whether or not people should be allowed to wear what they want? What is it with you fucking morons? Get a fucking life!!!!

So what if a woman is being forced to wear a personal tent by her evil husband? You know what love? Deal with it or live with it; either way don’t involve me with your shit. None of by business and none of anyone else’s. If you choose to be bound by a backward culture then it is up to you do something about it. Get educated; get a job and a house. It IS the State’s job to allow you to live how you want to live and if you are too stupid/lazy to break free then that is your problem not mine.

There are 60 million people in this Country; I have neither the time nor inclination to ask them all if every piece of clothing is freely worn. So, to the guy on the bus whose mum phoned to make sure he was wearing sweater? You’re on your own cowboy. Deal with it yourself.

Is it a symbol of a Mulsim takeover? Let them try? What do you REALLY think will happen, the fall of Western civilisation was brought down by a woman walking down the street with her face not showing?

COME ON PEOPLE LET US THINK ABOUT THIS STUFF BEFORE WE TYPE THIS SHIT UP.

We have people who baulk against infringement in our civil liberties and they want to legislate on what we can be seen wearing? No CCTVS but, by Christ we all want to see your face ‘just in case’?

When we start drawing laws to decide what we can and cannot wear, the Western values are already gone, mate.

This garment is a Statement of ideology? So fucking what? Let people ‘State their ideology’ how they want. They cannot infringe our ‘Statement of ideology’ by having a modern culture that is not in the least bit frightened by a 6 yard piece of cloth walking down the street.

They could rob a bank? So what, they could ramraid a bank in a 4x4 too, but it is a chance we just have to take.

By all means live your sad little fantasies regarding what you think that bhurka means, but please, don’t bother the rest of us and don’t hide behind ‘But you can’t make out if they are smiling crap.

Ted said...

@ Don't like
1 to 10

So what? If it is all of these things then what difference does it make?

Whatever it is and whatever it stands for this authoritarian crap forms no part of any culture I believe in. If 'they' want to bring my culture down, it won't be with a fucking tent. It will be with people who think my values can be brought down by a tent wearing woman.

Loftus Road said...

I bet all of the people arguing in favour of the covering do not live in areas where it is a very common sight.

Anyway as i see several women fully covered every day in my bit of West London, I always wave and loudly say hello to them.

I'm not sure they get the joke but still...

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