I draw the line at Billy Braggs self promotion tactics, that is going TOO far.Besides, it will make no difference, The NWO run this show and the NWO marxist state agents and police will try and turn it into a riot.Remember the event you were at OH where about 10 people not connected to anyone put the window through surrounded by more press than trouble makers, that was the state in action.the event where they murdered an innocent man!also remember the Iraq war demonstraition, made not a jot of difference.Until you get rid of the power base the NWO survive on, the international banking cartel, you can do nothing, because money is power and whoever you got out and put in would be corrupted within a week unless they had a higher goal and a system to limit this. The only people that realise this appears to be the BNP.The Larxists and the Libertarians all appear to be dancing to the NWO tune, which is why you don't get represented.
`The Libs were a con` was the best slogan.The il-Liberal un-democracts rather than gaining from this coilition will be destroyed by it.
It is Voting Day Tom?
I agree with you OH that majority governments have not served us well but that is not say that one day they won't.If a right of centre Conservative party had won on a common sense policy ticket I would be well happy with that thumping majority Government.The fact is that the majority of people voted Lib Dem and labour plus all sorts of other bollocks.PR will lock us into this shit forever.The reason Cuntface Bragg is demonstrating on this issue is,1:Labour lost2:It is too early for the Cunt to demonstrate against anything else yet.In 5 years time when the Cons are as popular as a fart in a space suit and the Labour shitehawk rises from the ashes,Wanker Bragg will have dropped this PR shit.Get ahead of the curve OH and campaign for a right of centre Conservative party.Preferably from within.
Get ahead of the curve OH and campaign for a right of centre Conservative party.Vote Oligarchy- you know it makes senseSlave mentality
Catflap, care to remind us all of the last time any government had over 50% of the vote?
Anon:It is all about brand.Hijack the Conservative brand with,and this is the clever bit.Conservatives.The real one's I mean which is broadly what we all are at heart.Otherwise and I quote Lawrence of Arabia."You will always be a small people,a little people".We have to learn from the Lefty bastards to become the loud minority and punch above our weight. The Conservative brand is the best vehicle from which to do that.
OH:Percentages mean bugger all when it comes to right and wrong.The majority of the country obviously doesn't know what is good for it judging by the voting figures.Why should those of us informed have to suffer because of their ignorance?If it meant dictatorship to keep a right minded, common sense political party in office for ever more then so be it.
How can anyone actually WANT to be ruled by the mob?if a majority want ID Cards, Sharia Law and anything else that hurts you, does the fact that a majority vote for it make it legitimate?People who want liberty AND democracy have simply not thought hard enough; the two things are incompatible, and the more Britain's population is skewed away from the indigenous population, the more this will become crystal clear.Proportional representation is not a cure for anything other than sharing the monopoly on violence amongst more people. There is nothing 'fair' or 'right' about it!
what do all these > Billy Bragg, the Greens, the BNP or the Marxists have in common ???they are all lefties/communists twonks..........and you want the same as them ???? OH your a fucking idiot, i thought you were a "libertarian"you moan about all the "stazi" leftists twonks, that have damaged the country over the past 13 years, and when a "centre right" party in cahoots with a "liberal" party have "power" , that start to roll back the 13 years of fucking stazi madness, you suddenly want the voting system changed to PR, meaning you have leftist twonks in power ad infinitum, if we had PR we would still have labopur in power, with the help of the libs (the nutty socialist side of the libs) bnp, and the nutty green that want to take us back to the stone age....get real OHtake off your stupid costume, as the lack of sunlight reaching the skin, can cause , or altesat add to exisiting mental problems bragg isnt woth the steam off mine, or anyones piss....why give him and his uaf/38 degrees leftist idiots the oxygen of publicity
Billy Bragg is a CUNT!The Green Party are fucking evil lefty control freaks who want us all to live in mud huts = Marxist control freaks.BNP = knuckle dragging Nazi fuckwits.PR = mayhem!
yawn squared.this is futile; they've already agreed to the AV referendum, and that's all you're getting.The kind of PR you're after will be blocked because the mock-liberal regime will do anything to prevent a BNP MP taking a seat in Westminster.The immigrant lobby (the jews in particular, who infest positions of power), will scream Weimar, and that will block it for the forseeable future.Catflap is incorrect about:1.The fact is that the majority of people voted Lib Dem and labour plus all sorts of other bollocks.2.PR will lock us into this shit forever...1. less than a third of the electorate voted for the Libs and Lab, and if you inspect the stats, it's pretty evident that the block of the electorate that tends to vote in this way is about 16 million (11m Labour, 5m Lib). About 2m voters flip between Lib and Con, and about 3m flip between Lib and Lab. The natural Tory vote tends to be about 13 million. So it's not that weird for the current result to see Lab lose 3m to the Libs.Both Tory and Labour still suffer from the post-Millennial apathy crash, where people left the Tories for Labour and Others and none-of-the above.The Libs and Labour may well swap places now that Labour ceases to have a point, since it conceded the ideological defeat when it became New Labour.2. PR will definitely make smaller parties get more votes, and that includes UKIP and the BNP, who will get access to publicity and money that they can't get. The BNP will feast on Old Labour and the apathy vote, which I believe consists mainly of that old fashioned group - the working class conservative, the most alienated of all groups in society.
The names on This List fill me with hope that this is a group worth supporting fully anyway.For Fucks Sake Holborn! Haven't many of these twats just been removed from power? I wonder why they now want change.
All the usual suspects were in the first few lines of that list, D&C, I stopped there - disgusting collection of luvvies and commies!
I can't imagine why you are a fan of PR OH, it just makes it more difficult to get rid of them. The most important thing about democracy is that it enables the people to get rid of truly awful rulers. PR makes that more difficult - you shouldn't support it.
Lutney Choker:Sorry I yawned went I read 'Yawn'.What did you say?
The first name on that list was enough for me.There is no way that I'm going to support anything that's backed by Power 2010 (or Common Purpose for that matter) however fucking wonderful it may seem. Maybe I'm just too damned suspicious after 13 years of New Labour but I can't help thinking... 'what's their real reason for whipping up all this purple hysteria'.If those socialist fuckwits were genuinely interested in PR then why didn't they do something about it when Bliar and Brown were about. They've had 13 fucking years to do this. Why now? If Liebour had stuck to their promises of electoral reform, years ago, we'd have just had a PR, AV or AV+ based Election. Wouldn't we?Anyhow isn't purple the colour of that UKIP lot ;-)
Motives. Not outcome. The authoritarian left only support what is good for the authoritarian left. Libertarians supporting the idea of PR is noble. Authoritarians (loudly) supporting the idea of PR is a signal that they have (or believe they have) the media power to ensure an authoritarian government remains for the foreseeable future. Fuck 'em.
ranter said... Billy Bragg is a CUNT!The Green Party are fucking evil lefty control freaks who want us all to live in mud huts = Marxist control freaks.BNP = knuckle dragging Nazi fuckwits.PR = mayhem!17 May 2010 21:23So what do you think you have now, people who listen to you and value you as they hand over 80% of your democracy to Brussles, you live in a warmongering fascist state, but you seem content with that!?and btw you left off UKIP, did it kind off kill your pathetic argument?
"If those socialist fuckwits were genuinely interested in PR then why didn't they do something about it when Bliar and Brown were about."excatly theyre not, it is a propaganda stunt to make it look like they are on the side of the people.A bit like daves referendum!They know they wont have to deliver.The system they would have actually introduced is the shit system anti Liberal anti democract judus clegg now wants.
Lutney choker21.24spot on, seems a few people on this blog have some brains at least.
Hot to disagree with you on this OH, I think it's vitally important who's behind this fake grass roots campaign. As when the government "gives in" and listens to the "voice of the people" they'll not speak to a single demonstrator they'll talk to the various lobbyists, wonks and celebs behind take back parliament and we'll have handed our voice over to them.BlueStateDigital the guys running the show also ran the "hope not hate" campaign amongst others and just what the hell has electoral reform go to do with GreenPeace except maybe to ensure more Greens get seats?
"Dazed And Confused, 17 May 2010 22:17 The names on This List fill me with hope that this is a group worth supporting fully anyway. For Fucks Sake Holborn!"Yes, OH, For Fucks Sake!This bollox is all about creating the illusion of democracy.
"Giolla said..."While i share your mistrust Labour know it wont happen which is why they are backing it, to claim the high ground. same as dave and the referendum bullshit.as for why it is needed, well that should be obvious, It is more represenative and breaks up the duopoly we have had for the last 100 years.which is why we wont get it.
This smells nasty, OH. Blue State Digital may possibly just be the domain sellers and hosts, but it looks like they are connected to Mark Ross of Power2010.Southbank HouseBlack Prince RoadLondon SE1 7SJ This is the same Mark Ross who blogs for Ekklesia and is described as Head of Campaigns at Power2010.Power2010 is bankrolled by the Joseph Rowntree trust (no secret, but neither is it advertized directly) and they have been pressing for electoral reform, they say, for five years. They are entitled to an opinion, but the Trust is not a citizen, so why should its money buy it influence? The latest campaign is Take Back Parliament which has been running from the vehicle the Democratic Reform Company, which shares an address with the Joseph Rowntree Trust and was incorporated in November 2009. THE DEMOCRATIC REFORM COMPANY:Registered no: 07087541Registered office: The Garden House Water EndYorkYO30 6WQTelephone:Incorporated: 26 Nov 2009I haven't checked the accounts yet so I don't know who else, if anyone is funding them. However, what are all those coalition people doing? Is it up to the Electoral Commission to have any opinion at all? Their job is to run what ever they are told to. I agree with Giolla, you need to use very long spoons indeed if you are going to eat with this lot. If you look at todays front page for Blue State Digital, remember to put your tin foil helmet on.http://www.bluestatedigital.com/BSD are coordinating the bid for the US to host the World Cup. Isn't it strange that today we had a mistress dobbing in her lover possibly scuppering Britain's chances of hosting the World Cup?It could just be coincidence, but it takes a little bit of work to set that up with the Daily Mail. Anyway, if BSD want AV then I'm against it. They have other motives which may not be to our advantage and the last thing which is ever on their mind is our welbeing.
Anonymous 23:50:"as for why it is needed, well that should be obvious, It is more represenative and breaks up the duopoly we have had for the last 100 years."It could break up the current duopoly but more likely it will entrench it even further. I'm not arguing against parliamentary reform (including electoral reform) I'm arguing against giving our voices over to the likes of Blue State Digital. If this si so important and really is a public swell of opinion where are the genuine grass roots efforts?I would alos note that "takebackparliament.org" was registered before the election:Domain Name:TAKEBACKPARLIAMENT.ORGCreated On:29-Apr-2010 15:47:07 UTCStill thing this isn't a stitch up?Also strictly we haven't had a duopoly this last 100 years - not quite.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Parliaments_of_the_United_Kingdom
We don't need PR. PR is just rearranging the deckchairs. Once elected, they will do what they want anyway, as they do now.ie. The assumption is that PR means you will get your say on what happens. It's not the case, and that is the flaw.What we need is final approval via referenda on all bills, including taxation and borrowing.Nick
Brian Haw is most put out at those dirty hippies moving into his neighbourhood.
I'm not arguing against parliamentary reform (including electoral reform) I'm arguing against giving our voices over to the likes of Blue State Digital.Me too. It's just that when I see Billy Bragg, Ekklesia, the Joseph Rowntree Trust and Blue State Digital all giving the impression that they speak for me and trying to make it appear on the media as if this debate is done and dusted, I reach for my gun and count my spoons.The only people who should be having an opinion on this are the British voters, and they need a non-spun independent briefing in order to make an informed adult decision.There might be things to be said for AV, or there might not, but this is a sophisticated attempt to make it seem like the Twitteratti have already decided in favour of AV. It's not the first time Ekklesia have had a go at this. In March they were picked up by other religious bloggers for pushing an ICM poll, financed by the Joseph Rowntree Trust, saying that everybody wanted the Bishops out of House of Lords and a fully elected second chamber. What is interesting about that link is that the Ekklesia spokesperson Johnathan Bartley responded quickly. That name, Johnathan Bartley, might be familiar as he is the man with the disabled son who "just happened" to be on the Cameron campaign trail and who ambushed Cameron about his son's struggle to get in to the Church school of his choice. Ed Balls had eventually intervened in the case to force the school to take the child, but some people might think that the nominally religious Ekklesia and a church school should have been able to appreciate each other's position better. Bartley seemed unable to grasp if a Church school, of all places, didn't want to take a child, it might be because they knew their own limitations best. Other people might think that Bartley was purely there purely to return the favour to Ed Balls. It's smelly. I'm persuaded for the moment that they are trying to get AV, rather than an elaborate double-bluff to prevent it. But if they want AV, they want it for their own purposes, not mine.
Sorry guys, this is like arguing that we can^t have democracy because people might vote for Hitler.Yes, the Greens and friends of the Earth want power. Under PR, they'd have 6 MPs. Likewise, UKIP would have 21 and the BNP would have 12.And it would be an honest reflection of how people vote, instead of the current farce that makes every politician a millionaire and a slave to the lobbyists.Ask yourselves, would PR have enabled the EU to tell us how to live our lives? Would PR have seen the deaths of a million innocent Iraqis?Stop arguing over who is sourcing the ingredients and look at the menu. I KNOW what people want because the Jury Team commissioned a Gallup poll to ask them. They want nothing that the left is offering and they want their voices heard. Billy Bragg can shout all he wants and 38 Degrees can bang as many drums as they want. If it gets us PR, then more strength to their elbow. Think of them as useful idiots if it helps.
"Yes, the Greens and friends of the Earth want power. Under PR, they'd have 6 MPs. Likewise, UKIP would have 21 and the BNP would have 12."You seem to have missed the discussions about setting the threshold high enough so that the likes of the BNP won't get seats and thus neither will any other small party.All the proposals I've seen so far getting spoken about/promoted would seem to do a very good job of locking out smaller parties and independents for ever.Let's have reform, but let's have a decent debate about it first and not one being stage managed by a US lobbying firm that set the campaign up before the election.
OH, I can agree with your motives BUT these lefties are not democratic nor are they pushing for reform for the good of the British voter. If/when anything finally happens the real grassroots' wishes will be completely ignored by Bragg & his chums & they'll use their names & influence to get what they want. You don't need a long spoon to sup with these people - you need a bargepole.
What a load of rubbish.At present, there are 646 local elections for our local representatives to parliament. You ran and did stand a chance against the others due to the system. Likewise, Martin Bell won on an anti-sleeze ticket in 1997.The system of PR only gives more power to political parties and their freedom to choose OUR representatives.We need elected local representation and individual accountability - that's what we have now. Under PR your publicity stunt would have meant nothing and "party men" could never be thrown out no matter what their behaviour.
@ Anonymous 17 May 2010 23:30.THEY'RE ALL CUNTS YOU CUNT! And your point...CUNT!
ranter said...BNP = knuckle dragging Nazi fuckwits.please dont offend me with your brainless rant, useless idiot,
Anonymous 2010hrs said: "if a majority want ID Cards, Sharia Law and anything else that hurts you, does the fact that a majority vote for it make it legitimate?"The tyranny of the majority is still a tyranny. Modern politics has forgotten this. The Big State should have been dismantled after WW2 but it was not. Being a bigger mob than any other does not confer authority and legitimacy over me. Get the state out of our lives and let us come together how we see fit.
@ anon 18 May 2010 13:38The master race did well in Barking. Fuck me that whore Hodge retained her seat for fucks sake! What a bunch of cunts they are - as indeed you are. Brainless rant my arse. British Nationalism is fucked. It failed in 1979 and again in 2010. It seems things will have to get very, very bad indeed.
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