Saturday, 15 May 2010

Vive la difference

a general election, yesterday

Libertarian / Fabian Explained

If a Libertarian doesn’t like guns, he doesn’t buy one.
If a Fabian doesn’t like guns, he wants all guns outlawed.

If a Libertarian is a vegetarian, he doesn’t eat meat.
If a Fabian is a vegetarian, he wants all meat products banned for everyone.

If a Libertarian sees a foreign threat, he thinks about how to defeat his enemy.
A Fabian wonders how to surrender gracefully and still look good.

If a Libertarian is homosexual, he quietly leads his life.
If a Fabian is homosexual, he demands legislated respect.

If a black person is Libertarian, they see themselves as independently successful.
Their Fabian counterparts see themselves as victims in need of government protection.

If a Libertarian is down-and-out, he thinks about how to better his situation.
A Fabian demands someone take care of him.

If a Libertarian doesn’t like a TV programme, he changes channels.
Fabians demand that those they don’t like be shut down.

If a Libertarian is an athiest, he doesn’t go to church.
A Fabian non-believer wants any mention of God and religion silenced. (Unless it’s a foreign religion, of course!)

If a Libertarian decides he needs health care, he goes about shopping for it, or may choose a job that provides it.
A Fabian demands that the rest of us pay for his.

If a Libertarian slips and falls over, he gets up, laughs and is embarrassed.
If a Fabian slips and falls, he grabs his neck, moans like he’s in labour and then sues.

If a Libertarian reads this, he’ll forward it so his friends can have a good laugh.
A Fabian will delete it because he’s “offended”.

29 comments:

Anonymous said...

So now you're just going to take old "Republican v Democrat" email forwards and replaced the instances of "Republican" with "Libertarian" and instances of "Democrat" with "Fabian".

This is fucking embarrasing stuff, OH, even by your usual standards.

sixtypoundsaweekcleaner said...

No, this is good. I know plenty of Fabians. Carry on the good work, OH.

Chris said...

So the Dog in the Manger was a Fabian?

Old Holborn said...

Anon

I feel your pain.

Anonymous said...

This is old. Very old. It has been refuted many times too.

belikera said...

"If a Fabian slips and falls, he grabs his neck, moans like he’s in labour and then sues."

Perhaps could be

"If a Fabian slips and falls, he grabs his neck, moans like he’s in Labour and then sues."

All libertarianism really is is recognising that a tyranny of a majority is still a tyranny and should be avoided.

Ampers said...

Nice one OH.

You'll never know whether I have heard it before or not as I wouldn't dream of being churlish enough to mention it.

Ampers

Anonymous said...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1278538/Gay-couple-sue-B-amp-B-snub-Christian-owners.html

PayPal button to support the B&B couple ??

Old Holborn said...

Nope, the Church can defend them, they defended the Church.

If they had said "we'll have who we fucking well like sleeping in our house, thank you", I'd be bunging them a few quid

Kit said...

Mildly ironic considering the Churches conversion to promoting homosexuality. The followers of the Church of England have to change their deeply held principles on a regular basis.

And since when did the Church defend anyone except for dole scrounging 'asylum seekers'?

Now, if those B&B owners had been Muslim i'm sure the authorities would have had a very different attitude.

Bushranger said...

Good one!

Gordon said...

Top stuff OH, if not original I'm glad you brought it to my notice; I can now let others know.

Sound and Fury said...

Well, I'm a Libertarian and an atheist, and I think you set up a false dilemma (Actually, you probably set up several, with the dichotomous tone of the piece, but that's another matter).

I fight against religion; I don't want it in itself banned, but I do want indoctrination banned. Filling a child's head with nonsense when they lack the faculties to critically analyse it is cruel, and when combined with threats of eternal torture it is abusive.

Wanting freedom from religion is not Fabian; if anything it's Libertarian - and I'm tired of having to choose between atheism and libertarian conservatism at the polls.

(I might even do a post about it when my site's back up; my server's currently under repair after the fan bearings gave up the ghost)

Lutney Chocker said...

I agree with "Sound and Vision"; none of those things are particularly or consistently either "Libertarian" or "Fabian"
[General Quintus Fabius Maximus (nicknamed "Cunctator", meaning "the Delayer").]

The couplets seem more like "passive" v "active"

Guns = false dilemma.
the opposite of a total ban is a total free for all; and a bit adolescent or disingenuous, you surely wouldn't be advocating schizophrenics and Taliban immigrants rocking up and down the high street with M16s slung over their shoulders.

Vegetarianism = ditto (a quasi-false dilemma, in that it's not the dilemma you thought it was)

Bumming = ditto

Church = ditto

TV = ditto

Falling over = ditto

Reading it = ditto

Your second category is:
Foreign Threat, here you've got a completely different dichotomy (active positive and active negative), definite false dilemma.

Down & Out = ditto

Healthcare = ditto



The basic error I think you make is to see Libertarianism as a complete ideology and conflate it with capitalism (which is more or less what the Republican Party is about), when it's actually just one parameter; and not an economic one; or one that says anything about whether you get off your arse and DIY (that would be an economic one = capitalism = right wing).
Libertarianism includes a full spectrum from your complete free-lovin' hippy to your pig-headed contrarian.

http://www.friesian.com/quiz.htm

Old Holborn said...

"Libertarianism includes a full spectrum from your complete free-lovin' hippy to your pig-headed contrarian"

Yup. All it requires is an absense of the state telling you what to be. Be what you want to be.

STFC Executive said...

Attacking the Fabians! You dangerous bastards - how very 'on the edge'!

more tea, vicar? said...

Great post ... but ... it's actually the Faggian Society, not Fabian.

The overwhelming number of crusty old bottom looseners and leather-faced carpet munchers it more than a little hint of this fact.

Consider yourself corrected =)

Anonymous said...

Sound and fury
Wants religious brainwashing banned
,does that include all religions,
if so ,name them ,come on be a
secular hero, be a warrior of atheism, wave your one eye banner,
lets see you jump up and down on
a Koran or a Talmud,.
Or is it just Chritianity which
gives you a chill.

Old Holborn said...

no religion until 18

Sound and Fury said...

Anonymous:
Yes, it includes all religions (well, almost. Some of the descendants of Eastern beliefs are 'safe', although still not advisable. Jainism, for example, isn't likely to try to convert me or interfere in the public sphere - but I'd rather not be a Jainist)

Sure, Christianity gives me a chill - but bible-thumpers scare me a sight less than Islam.

The Qur'an is one of the nastiest books in existence.

As for Judaism, there are two things about it that sicken me: 1) it's oppressive-theistic, that's bad enough, but 2) it's somehow managed to get conflated with two other issues: the Semitic race and the Zionist nation. This is partly because Jewishness is claimed (by both Jewish scholars and many of their historical oppressors) to be racially determined - if your mother is Jewish, so are you, whether you have an imaginary friend or not.

It also doesn't help that a certain kind of Jew (not, by any stretch of the imagination, the majority of Jews, of course!) rather takes pride in their persecution; some people need to get over themselves, and it's no surprise that such people have a nonempty intersection with the set of Jews.

Nonetheless, the main problem is that if you criticise religion, or indeed suggest that Zionism is a bad idea (I mean, are they really unable to live in the same country as other people?) you get branded a racist. Conflation: it makes me really angry.

As for "banner-waving", that might be seen as a little bit excessive in these overly respectful times; however, I do have the courage of my convictions and as such I wear a small 'atheist' badge, mainly because I don't have a bigger one. In this, as in so much else, I am determined to make my voice heard, and I don't like to be branded a Fabian for it.

JohnnyReb said...

I don't think you really understand Libertarianism.

It actually means significant advocacy for homosexual rights, the legalization of drugs and abortion in all circumstances, the destruction of sexism on all levels, and the destruction of any social programs whatsoever. Old school libertarianism also included the destruction of corporatism and the mercantile state.

The point is to destroy the power that any one man wields over any other man's life, although the libertarians in the United States are now ignoring the civil liberties in order to focus on economic ones.

They're selling out to the big companies via CPAC and the CATO institute.

banned said...

One to cut out and keep, thank you Mr Holborn.

caesars wife said...

Thats quite good OH , although Fawkes scared me potless with his rummaging of fabians , the more I find out about them , the more I seem to think I am going to get to become part of the Borg collective if they get power .

The labour spin factory fired up today , with the leadership contest , oh no Labour is not this rudderless "flying dutchman" of the dammed , but a party with its eyes set on left progressive renewal ! "we became to manegerial" says Ed Milliband only to be shadwowed in the media by a more chased ed balls and then later the more toxic "I fear for David if I win the contest".
CW thinks there is somthing begiining to whiff of rot , havent quite got round to checking there own cavenous bottoms where most of there policy originates from , but they may get there one day .
George Osbourne , has had a look at the books , poured a stiff drink and found the long lost chancellors ability to put some hot lead into the ruins spending in a crisis that by the looks of it was to leave a post ruin jonah effect. You can almost hear the Labour clique , sniggering when he opened the box marked pending , or opened the desk top drawer in No11 to find not only his stapler in jelly and the numbers on the phone key pad rearranged , but all the spending contracts hurridly arranged by some eager/willing whitehall types , wrapped in a particualry massive stickky turd , marked gift , luv gord xxx.

CW notes that both Cameron and Osbourne have never really grapsed the technique of calling Labours economic polices much more than weak or lite or really telling working people that Labour have so trashed there future wealth that somthing like a neuremberg trial is required .
I was wondering how people who consider a £60 wine bill reasonable , would manage to explain how £30 week disposable income needed to be endured and taken from them ,because parliaments treasury questions had become a by word for fiction merchants . The strap line "look were terribly sorry but we were looking after your money but it just seems to have slipped our minds since 2005 to give out anything more effective than ticking offs , wedgies and wrist burns to those Labour chaps "

Being as Mr Cleggs previous pmqs performances also show an alarming lack of attack ability or even faux anger with real figures , no need to wonder why people still feel a little short changed by HM oppositions abilities , to smell a wrat rather than plummy bouquet.

Coalition of the new still keeping its fizz and sweetness although Mr Chope seems to be blowing a force 6 with tin hat potential . Gerald Warner has been a particulary sharp abrasive for some time and found his range yesterday , however Peter Hitchens is incensed enough to move beyond being a critic of the gene splice and glow in the dark bride of Imelda frankenstien new politics . Optomism has not only worn off Peter , he shot it dead at some considerable range from himself and has not had to endure all the wierd emotions . If only he had heard what some lib dem grass roots had been saying !, cue menacing laugh and slow hand rubbing from the Lib Bloefeld party!

shhh dont mention the vote fraud 7mn postal votes were registerd with a big uncheckable rush before april 20th deadline , new politics on some supect results , doesnt quite compute does it .

Frank Field makes a welcome addition .

And sinister google map cars turn out to be stasiesque mobile data interception units , should give the lizard NWO groups a new line of discussion . I told you , I told you , they are watching us , google map was just so that they could land the cloaked invasion ships on sites near lib dem marginals !. LOL

Bred in the bone said...

The gist of libertarian free will is lacking compared to a necessitarians determination to survive, as ordained.

All moon heed, Saxon al-mon-aght, resulting in almanac.

Your opponents consult the heavens for favourable and unfavourable times, in regards their mission.


You must therefore become microcosmic and macrocosmically attuned in regards free will, or free will becomes chaos, out of which order must again be ordained.

Gallimaufry said...

@JohnnyReb

"I don't think you really understand Libertarianism.

It actually means significant advocacy for homosexual rights, the legalization of drugs and abortion in all circumstances,"

All circumstances? Wouldn't you like another generation of little Libertarians bawling for attention and filling their nappies?

Lutney said...

" Old Holborn said...
"Libertarianism includes a full spectrum from your complete free-lovin' hippy to your pig-headed contrarian"

Yup. All it requires is an absense of the state telling you what to be. Be what you want to be."

...which is why it's utter bollocks.
Human beings are a group-forming animal; and it's simply incompatible with our DNA to be truly individualist - by implication you have to form a group of individualists to preserve individualist rights, at which point you cease to be individualists!

The "state" in this context is the admin for the "group".

Essentially, what Liberterianism is is crypto-republicanism; because pure Libertarianism effectively equates to Anarchism.

Again!!! The famous online essay...
"Libertarianism makes you stupid":
http://sethf.com/essays/major/libstupid.php


This one:
" JohnnyReb said...
I don't think you really understand Libertarianism.

It actually means significant advocacy for homosexual rights, the legalization of drugs and abortion in all circumstances, the destruction of sexism on all levels, and the destruction of any social programs whatsoever"

totally incorrect... Libertarianism necessarily allows equal advocacy for those who would deny rights based on their beliefs... all you end up with is a balkanised society of groups huddling together to protect their particular subjective interpretation of freedom: the freedom to bum; and the freedom to kill bummers.

Lutney said...

...or I should say... "Libertarianism advocates the freedom to bum killers; and the freedom to kill bummers!"

Yee-Haw! Alrightie Cowboy!

mrs agato said...

"All it requires is an absense of the state telling you what to be. Be what you want to be."

Presumably this means you think's ok for a 60 year old man to bugger a 16 year old boy?

The Defendant said...

"Presumably this means you think's ok for a 60 year old man to bugger a 16 year old boy?"

He was asking for it, M'lud.

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