I love PR!Perhaps we'll even get a new Parliament building to accommodate.
I simply cannot believe you guys STILL support a PR system. I fully appreciate it would split the current party asunder (no bad thing) but just look at the abortion currently in progress.The Lib Dums choose who will govern the country and how it is governed - not you, not even the party with the biggets vote. In fact, the complete opposite!I'll grant you manifesto's are often not worth the paper they're written on - but they're the only thing we've got to base a decision. What now? No Tory manifesto, no Liebour manifesto, no Lib Dum manifesto. You get what you're given by Clegg and.. oh, Lord Razzell! Who the fuck is he and, pray tell, who the fuck voted for him to have any say in my country's future?If you guys think PR is the solution to the UK's problems, I think you need your brains scrubbed.
Sod off- you know nothing
As to PR, we could make a teeny tiny start by having multi-member constituencies with two or three members. You could keep one man one vote for one named candidate - the two or three candidates with the most personal votes then get a seat in Parliament. The more members per constituency, the more likely it is that an independent, a local candidate or a smaller party gets a seat.PS I attended that protest for a giggle. It was mainly Lib Dems, and in between chanting "Fair votes now" they shouted "We want to see Nick". I couldn't help thinking it would have been hilarious if Nick Griffin has suddenly appeared.
Sorry, OH, I'm all for PR but a Li Dem front group rabble-rousing before the Lib Dem leader magnanimusly comes out to address them worries me. It's not far off the Labour trick of paying the like-minded to lobby them.And Power2010 are no particular fan of freedom or liberal values.
PR will give a voice to those smaller parties who are excluded from the current FPTP system.
POWER 2010 headed by Lady Kennedy [labour peer] and funded by Rowntree Trust [liberal supporting] - hmmm?
PR= permanent lib/lab coalition commanding 50% of the vote, throw in the scots and welsh socialists makes it 60%. Socialism, unchecked, settles permanently over the UK. That is where we are going. To imagine that a 3% ukip vote can stem that tide is pure fantasy. wake up people
PR is for twats. Clegg is King twat
i didn't get where i am today without pr
From what he said it seems clear he wil get a referendum on some form of `PR`.HOWEVER!1. the type of `pr` will be a bullhit one that favours the lib dems but keeps the UKIP and BNP out. there are several ways they can achieve this(cut off points, multipliers,higher election deposits etc), which means you get NO change, you may see a multiple choice list of the varients, all designed to keep out smaller parties and the one that destroys the smallest parties will be hypede - in short the sgheeple will be told what to vote for by the media.2. if the PR system is not a rigged one(it will be - it will be sold as fairer and more democratic but it will be bull) the the papers and the eu will kill it.in short you will not get a direct pr system that will help the smaller parties.
Please, think carefully before you get embroiled with this.Be very careful.Is this the most important issue for the country to address just now?
lolful comment thread.god bless you all. and the internets.p.s. it's a tough nut to crack, this un - maybe we should convene a parliamentary inquiry? ;-)
The likes of Billy Bragg are only interested in permanent power for leftists. If the current system can’t deliver that (even after Labour has rigged it), they’ll concoct another, even more bent one.Genuine reform – yes. A new rigged system - no.
@Sod off- you know nothingOne or two supporting remarks would've been nice, Guthrum.As "...he will screw you on this" says, the (il)LibDems are as false a promise as either of the other Big Two.Clegg'd be enthusiastically rimming Brown right now if Brown held the keys to his own advancement.Any advantage which falls our way out of this will be a total fucking accident.
22:11One or two supporting remarks would've been nice, Guthrum.yeah it wudda bin nice u lazi fuckin sod
PR will be crap. The libel dems will end uplike the Institutional Revolutionary Party in Mexico - permanently in power whatever we vote.
Oh dear dabbling with PR and its inherent local stalinism prospects. If the people wanted freedom why did they vote Labour ?If giving people what they desire is the new democracy, PR wont save you from the slippery slope into clandestine world of keeping ones seat under PR.The backwash will take a little courage to see clearly again , the hidden hand of Labours better than expected result is somthing to bare in mind .But onto Mr Clegg does he take the generous offer knowing full well that any slip or farce will make the country malfunction , or does he take the socialist route further and has a heavy heart knowing it just isnt right to keep on lieing to the British people that they are free.CW notes that today was the 65th anniversary of Victory in Europe , millions died defeating National scoialism , and yet here we are not cowering under the dread of V weapons , but awaiting the outcome of a conversation that no one actually voted for and a form of goverment that no one wants and a bill for the msimanagement of the euro which was nothing to do with us.more twists in this than in Dusk till Dawn or pulp fiction .Already I have met labour voters dissapointed that the ruin isnt gone and it hasnt computed with them that good time socialism was dead in 2007 , along with its progressive spin , so they may not like being suckered into the inevitablity of the debt reduction.
Smegg is NWO the lib dems are nothing but a NWO lobby group and Smegg will shit on the people from a great height - don't expect anything to get better.The NWO often say, `don't let a crisis go to waste` (usually the ones they create - the reason why they create them!) and believe me they won't!You will find yourself in an even tighter strait jacket after they are through.Labour had this planned even before the election and the NWO Tories would have backed it if needed.Everything Labour planned to do after the election but kept rather quiet on (you had to keep a track on their announcements and leaks to notice) Dave has claimed as his own!Including the compulsery Hitler youth core, and countless other things i could mention.The only difference was the spin and even that wasn't convincing.So yes I know Daves real plans because labour announced them about a year ago but never implimented them and now Dave is claiming them as his own, not because he has no idea and is copying, but because that is what the NWO tell him he must do, and anyone else who may have been elected.The only victory in all this for the little people is that the NWO did all they could to avoid a hung parliment, they set the media that had kissed Labours ringpiece for decades on Brown for no apparent new reason that bested his killing of people in illegal wars that kinda went unoticed by the press or the EU referendum that the NWO press kind of buried also.But becase they knew they had tacken the Labour mask as far as they could, but they knew no one wanted Dave also as dave was only offering the NWO policies that Gordon had. so a hung parliment was on the cards, big no no for the NWO, just complicates things for them, but not to fear they had puppet Smeggg in the wings.But it went to show that the public could not be totally lead by the nose by the press, their media power was starting to crack - no longer could the sun say, it was the sun that won it!and for those doubting the Lib dems involvement in the NWO, perhaps you should read Shabby Assclowns biography where he discusses his involvement at a bilderberg meeting, and low and behold loads of non jobs from the UN come his way! Or perhaps i should remind you what they did to us on the EU?Any opportunity to rob you of your democracy and freedoms they will take full advantage off, selling it with their media as better, more accountable when it will be the opposite that they will actually impliment. war is peace slavery is freedom.The NWO actually give each other gifts of Orwells 1984 as part of a big in house joke on us - yes really!The Iron curtain has come down and this time we are on the inside.
PR in the Euro elections gave Mr Griffin and Mr Farage seats at the trough in Brussels. UKIP and the BNP each polled about 917k and 563k votes respectively yet none of their candidates was elected. The Greens got one with 285k. In the Scottish parliament Greens have 2 seats. Margo McDonald sits as an independent. If Wee Dougie Alexander hadn't fucked up the ballot papers Tommy Sheridan would likely have been elected.It is perfectly possible to have a system of elections which gives representation to voters. There is no perfect system, but there is a model in Scotland already which is better that entrenching 2 parties disliked by most of the population. Voters have shown in Scotland and Europe that they know how to use their votes effectively. Let us stand up for Democracy, not narrow personal interest.PR is long overdue. I want my vote to count. Oh, and in Scotland the hated Tories got 16% of the vote - despite people knowing their vate was wasted - so they should have got about 9 seats (1 ), and Labour got 42% which should have been 25 seats ( 41 ) out of 59. Even in Socialist paradise Scotland Labour did not actually win.
Personally, i feel recovery of the economy of the country & getting an elected government working on that is far more important than voting reform at the moment. While not a particular supporter of CMD, his Party got the highest share of the votes - if we end up with a Lib/Lab alliance it'll be the two Election losers running the country. Clegg is nothing but political opportunist, not to be trusted as he has demontrated already over the EU Referendum. Billy Bragg shouting his mouth off while waving a purple hanky at an Election loser who fancies himself as a kingmaker is not the sort of democracy I want for my country.
The EU d`Hondt method is bullshit with a multiplyer - tell them to shove it, it kicks the smallest parties in the teeth. The d'Hondt method (mathematically but not operationally equivalent to Jefferson's method, and Bader-Ofer method) is a highest averages method for allocating seats in party-list proportional representation. The method is named after Belgian mathematician Victor D'Hondt. This system is less proportional than the other popular divisor method, Sainte-Laguë, because d'Hondt slightly favors large parties and coalitions over scattered small parties
I see Guido is pushing for extreme communist Hardman to be labour leader!After pushing communist Dave on us for the last 6 months, just as the NWO instructed him to and to think he started under a libertarian banner - quite laughable really!Especially with his chinese style censorship!Guido is a state op.They needed to avoid another drudge, so created Guido, distraction, propaganda, bullshit, pro NWO policy - quite transparent.
Aint nobody going nowhere, suckas!
Check out the comments at GOT on this topic. It seems my nose was correct.
1000 students led by fucking Billy Bragg? Do fuck off.
10:51yet another pr bore room
11:59yes, to put it in layman's terms, the country* is faced with a choice of throwing out the baby with the bathwater or slicing it in half.*well maybe just the political parties, the people would love to see a tv chef show us how to doner kebab a baby, especially a parliamentary one.
guthrum, I enjoy reading the blog and as OH will testify I have been lurking around here for quite some time. So it fills me with some sadness to have to write this.firstly the purple fucktards were a labour flash mob organised to put pressure on clegg to go with labour. Nothing more.Secondly.PR will deliver much less "democracy" thn you are currently getting. How so I hear you ask?Down here in NZ we introduced such a system nearly 20 years ago after a decade long campaign by the extreme left wing (little clue for you there, it is always the extreme left asking for it. Ask yourself why).They got a fucked system called MMP through and now we have 60 electorate MP's and 60 list MP'sThe country is beholden to half a dozen fanatics who hold out for stupid economically suicidal policy for the sake of ideas cooked up in their fevered imaginations while trying to look up the skirt of the plain girls in the labour club at swixth form college. We have just shed the worst govt this country has ever seen. led by a closeted lesbian. loyally supported by a legion of teachers, unionists, transgender mongs, rastafarians and maori seperatists. The whole fucking thing is ridiculous.Our new Tory govt has had to turn itself into blue labour to scrape in because the previous labour mob made more than half country rely on freebies to exist.I would rather have some tory toff fucking things up slowly than the hyper speed of calamity that PR would give you.Better to fix the electorate boundary and size fraud, remove postal voting and sack everybody in the civil service hired in the last 13 years.rant over.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Nick-Clegg-/290433096884?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_Tickets_Tickets_LE&hash=item439f295cb4Clegg for sale, get your bid in quick
12:50We have just shed the worst govt this country has ever seen. led by a closeted lesbian. loyally supported by a legion of teachers, unionists, transgender mongs, rastafarians and maori seperatists.
One thing Labour *are* likely to get out of all this - because it's something the GlibDems are almost as keen to sweep under the carpet - is a full Memory Hole treatment of any questions concerning postal vote fraud. All relevant documentation will already have gone missing; the questions, and those who might ask them, are about to follow.Deceit, it's the new initiative.
there is a rumour about lefty liberals threatening to devolve back into the labour party, isn't there? if not, there fucking should be.
This will fizzle out like a cheap firework. Momentum is everything.WV: Cleggy
12:47oooh...this sounds like fun! portional representation! can't i just chop all of them in half and then play mix-and-match, holbers?!!!
14:03hey! i've got an idea! how about i put cleggy's willy on camerung for starters?!!! ahahaahahaha!!!!!!
and then i can put camerung's little willy on cleggy!!! ahahahahaha!!!!!!
and then everyone will live happily for ever and ever and ever after!!! ahahahahahahaha!
14:22except for poor old browny of course...coz i heard that a yorkshire terrier ate his willy during the election!!! ahahahahahahaha!!!!!!
hey! what d'you think of that eh holbers?!!! i can do that you see. i can do anything little wittle thingy i want to, that's right isn't it holbers? because i'm the queeeeeeeeeen!!!!!!! ahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!
Not run by people who might appeal to most readers here, but they're asking for contributions for national newspaper ads tomorrow morning, saying "Nick Clegg, don't sell out on PR - Fair votes now!" https://secure.38degrees.org.uk/page/contribute/PR
14:15but that's not fair ma'am. i want cleggy's willy.
15:04i want cleggy's willy too!!!
shut up you lot. i'm having cleggy's willy and i'll do with it as i please. got it. now stop squabbling.
SHIT THE BED
PR is a honey trap.I'd love my vote to count and do a rerun of the Weimar Republic, but it's totally naive to trust a couple of leftist parties to deliver anything but a 1,000 year reich of diversity-censorship, high tax, and state dependence.PR will deliver us unto Sweden... 55% tax, a huge state, and a final solution for the indigenous people and their once great country.Truth is, we'd be better orf with absolute monarchy - cheaper, and less news.Tories are the next best thing, for now. They can cripple the LibDems, which'll help; but the real answer is to inject capitalism: high employment and entrepreneurship, into all those shithole parts of the country that keep returning Labour. Kill Labour by cutting off it's food supply.
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