Friday, 7 May 2010

Hold out, Clegg, for all our sakes



So it's come to this. Millions of votes mean nothing. One man now decides who will be Prime Minister

With 15 million of us not wanting a Tory Govt, compared to 10 million who do, Clegg has his only and final chance to actually change politics for all of us.

65 years of red/blue swaps has cost this country everything, lurching from one extreme to the other, knocking down the house that Jack built every 10 years so that Jane can build her version of Utopia and sending us, the people the bill. It bankrupts us every single time.

All of our hard earned taxes, Britain's entire wealth (and more) is constantly squandered to the whims of minority governments, less than 400 people sitting in Parliament in their desperate attempts to "make their mark" and enter history books.

Only one other country in Europe has a first past the post system, Greece. It has allowed their politicians to take the Greek people to utter ruin. If we allow Clegg to hand power to Dave or Gordon without demanding that ALL of our voices need to be consulted about our country and our own futures, we will be rioting in the streets before you can say "Rooney misses penalty in semi final against France, England out. Again"

I've tried to do my bit and failed miserably. Now you can do yours. Sign this, quickly. Because as it stands, after all the voting, all the hard work, all the effort by all the people to make your voice count, it currently comes down to the decision of just one man what is good for all us and what Government we, 61 million of us will get. And that is not a democracy. We've violently overthrown other countries for less.

Yes, PR will give the BNP a voice, but perhaps we wouldn't have 1 million illegals in this country and home grown Islamic terrorists.

Yes, PR will give the communists a voice. But it might have saved us from giving £680 BILLION to greedy bankers

Yes, PR will give the Greens a voice, so we might stop selling so many fucking cluster bombs to dictators.

Is that really such a bad thing? Instead, we are run by friends and donors of minority governments. Lobbyists. Unions. Russian Oligarchs. Media moghuls. Unelected european commissioners.

Clegg. We want reform. We voted for reform. Give us reform. Otherwise you might as well not bother asking again and simply have the honesty to admit that the electorate counts for fuck all. You won't like us when we're angry, I promise. Ask the Greeks.

96 comments:

Anonymous said...

It's a difficult one. I support the idea of proportional representation.

However, Gordon Brown and his public-hating cronies have SCREWED everyone for far too long, and at this point in time I consider a coalition between Tory+LD to be preferable to any sniff of Labour retaining power.

While 15 million of us may not have voted for a Tory government, if you want to look at it that way, 17-18 million of us have not voted for Labour, and with quite some conviction looking at the swings.

Old Holborn said...

Which is why it has to change

Yes, PR will give the BNP a voice, but we wouldn't have 1 million illegals in this country.

Yes, PR will give the communists a voice. But it might have saved us from giving £680 BILLION to greedy bankers

Yes, PR will give the Greens a voice, so we might stop selling so many fucking cluster bombs to dictators.

A plague on all their houses.

I am Stan said...

Holby,

For fucks sake,are you unhinged,as if signing a fucking petition will make a rats arse of a difference,

Are the Greeks sending fucking petitions?.

Jesus wept!...

edgar said...

I've signed it - but I also signed the one that demanded Gordon Brown's resignation.

Old Holborn said...

stan

I am trying to stop a riot, not start one.

Anonymous said...

Yes PR would allow the BNP a voice, but that's the price of freedom of speech and a properly representative government. If you don't want the BNP to hold any power, make a country where there is no reason for the BNP to exist.

Marchamont said...

fucking cluster bombs are fucking profitable - don't shit on one of the few decent industries we have left.

I am Stan said...

Holby said-stan

I am trying to stop a riot, not start one.


Whaaaaat!!,youve been hanging around with the establishment too long,bring it on I say...

Anonymous said...

edgar: Oh, I'd like to sign that - where is it?

Also, if there is one - I'd like to sign a petition against the police using their cars and a loudhailer to thank people for voting Labour, which has apparently happened in Rhondda. I'd pay good money for video footage of that to be shown on the BBC.

From the BBC and now referenced on forums and blogs:

"1559: Gareth Kerr from Mid Glamorgan, Wales, writes: In all honesty, I would support a Tory Lib Dem alliance. Here in the Rhondda, a police van is driving around and thanking people who voted Labour over the loudhailer. I always thought the police were A-political but under Labour they have changed drastically. Time now for serious change. "

Absolute fucking disgrace.

Anonymous said...

Stan's primal savage urges are once again surfacing.

Dave said...

Failed miserably?

I doubt that you were miserable out on the hustings OH.

You spoke the truth. Your conscience should be clear. More sugar next time?

Anonymous said...

Englishmen never Riot, too much Tea-drinking. I should know, Im a tea-belly.

Lescromps said...

If Clegg bottles this,as Guido warned us that he would weeks ago; then he and his Lib Dems better not knock on my door again I voted for radical change not fucking stitch ups.Email the Lib Dems tell them we are not fucking well having it..

I am Stan said...

Anonymong said-Stan's primal savage urges are once again surfacing.


Yeah,you should give it go lightweight, maybe then the political elite would not have taken the piss out of you "indigenous" folk for the last few centuries...

Edgar said...

Lescromps: we've just told them we will continue to 'have' it. Inserted sideways, too.

Anonymous said...

I hope you watch the TV back OH. Now matter how much I empathise with your policy statement, you need to stop wearing that fucking clown suit.

No-one was going to take you remotely seriously like that. I enjoy the blog, but it has to be said I'm afraid.

Anonymous said...

Works both ways, if it wasn't for the costume I wouldn't have known about OH, or this blog, and he wouldn't have had my vote and donation.

Old Holborn said...

I hope you watch the TV back OH. Now matter how much I empathise with your policy statement, you need to stop wearing that fucking clown suit.

No-one was going to take you remotely seriously like that. I enjoy the blog, but it has to be said I'm afraid.

Says anonymous commentator

Eric Von Pickleshaub said...

Nice day today...

Forward with Liberal-Social-conservatism

Les Crump (Coventry) said...

OH can we gets refunds, perhaps a "charge back" courtesy of paypal.
Yes it was a dismal result, but we'd need not all be losers. Thanx.

Anonymous said...

If it were'nt for selling rogue states 'n' terrorist weapons (see my end-user certificate) this country would be fucked!

Even the paki's north of Watford have closed their Anorak sweatshops.

The arms industry is all we have left, lets not trade this in for some Green enviro issue!

Rev. Coalshuttle-Brown said...

Reasons to be Cheerful, part 2.

"one day it will all come to an End"

Wv: Prith ~ holiday camp in N.Wales.

Anonymous said...

Know where you're coming from OH but neither did i go out & vote so that that unelected pyscho fuckpig could remain in No 10 claiming he has a 'moral right'.

Scotopian said...

Clegg holds all the cards. Cameron will have to acede to PR, or England will be governed by a weak coalition whose day to day survival will be at the grace and mercy of The SNP and Plaid.

Anonymous said...

PR NOW!

Newgates Knocker said...

When stupid people are paid to breed like bunnies and don't have the capacity to think for themselves and even the intelligent can't bring themselves to think outside the tiny box.I don't think any voting system is going to help us.

Anonymous said...

Jut wanted to say "Thanks for trying OH!" A disapointing result sure, but at least you acted on your beliefs, and for that I admire you.

Thank you.

Ron Broxted said...

Duly signed Mr O'Holborn. I have many names too.

The Quizzical Observer said...

*Applause*

For the post and for the campaign.

Deflated or What? said...

Newgates Knocker (a few posts further up) sums it up perfectly.

Unless there is a political awareness/social conscience test before being allowed to vote, we're f*cked no matter what.

Ian R Thorpe said...

Another thing Clegg could do is offer Cammers a choice. PR or a grand coalition involving a Johnson or Darling led Labour contingent.

With the financial crisis now breaking in the Eurozone set to gop supernova and swallow us up before the year is out these barstatds in Westminster need to get a grip on reality pretty quick.

Not Milliband D of course, he's a Thinderbirds puppet and will never "get real."

Anonymous said...

Yes, PR will give the BNP a voice, but perhaps we wouldn't have 1 million illegals in this country and home grown Islamic terrorists.

It will also bring in super far left insanity, far worse than Neu Liebour.

Yes, PR will give the communists a voice. But it might have saved us from giving £680 BILLION to greedy bankers

Now that is simply INSANE. Communists do not understand anything whatsoever about money. They bankrupted the USSR and would do the same here. They would not save the money of the ordinary person in any way whatsoever. 'Property is theft' remember?

Yes, PR will give the Greens a voice, so we might stop selling so many fucking cluster bombs to dictators.

I thought you had read their manifesto? The Greens are even more insane than the Communists, whose views have been annealed in the fire of power for seventy years.

You seem to be a good person OH, but you are deeply confused about rights and what the true nature of government is.

No matter how many people 'have their say' the system is still a complete violation of everyone's natural rights. There is no denying this, and to think that tweaking it to PR will solve its flaws is just wishful thinking.

No numbskull having their say, for instance, on the matter of bringing in ID Cards makes such a thing correct. Until you face this and stop believing that Democracy can in any way work to secure everyone's rights, you are going to keep making these illogical posts about PR, voices being heard, obedient public servants doing whatever the electorate asks for no matter what yadda yadda yadda, that prove that you really are not thinking deeply enough.

As for asking 'the Greeks' it is only the leeches that are rioting in Greece to preserve their free handouts, not the productive part of that country's population. No one in Britain cares enough about PR or the electoral system or anything remotely ideological or intellectual to riot over it. If they did, they would have rioted several times over the last thirteen years. If riots do come here, it will be the legions of Labour voters who are about to lose their benefits who will take to the streets for vengeance.

Anonymous said...

BNP went up, not down. Proportional Representation (PR) is needed in order to BNP gain seats. The current method means the Lib, Lab & Con will be in charge for a long, long time without opposition in the Parliament.

Talking about INCREASE, BNP came in second only after the Conservative. Yes, believe it or not, Nick Griffin's party was the second major winner in this election. Not in seats due to the unjust voting system they have in the UK (as in US), but in overall votes.

dave "one-welly" cameron said...

so much tosh being spouted. the commons is now knee-deep in a very smelly slush which has irreversibly watered-down our great democratic process. may i thank the electorate for giving all parties a resounding mandate to fuck off and never return. i will now make an unscheduled pitstop in the dead-sea-mudflats in an attempt to recover my other dunlop.

pondlife support machine said...

20:10

the commons is now knee-deep in a very smelly slush which has irreversibly watered-down our great democratic process.

terminal symptoms i'm afraid. time to pull the plug.

Dave H said...

If it's a choice between Clegg backing the Tories or backing Labour, at this point I vote for him to back the Tories for a few months. He doesn't have to do much, just get his MPs to abstain from most votes

All we need from Cameron is a promise of a binding referendum on PR and make sure that the politicians let us choose which form of PR we want. That way they don't need a commission to explore it, merely a good publicity exercise to explain all the different types and what's good and bad about each one. Then we all rank the options (including FPTP, which is better than some PR variants) in order of preference and use a suitable PR variant to determine which one wins.

If mainstream parties had to pay more attention to the electorate then perhaps the BNP wouldn't attract so much of the vote. They totally lost the Barking council seats.

I am Stan said...

Yes, believe it or not, Nick Griffin's party was the second major winner in this election


Hahahahahhahahahah...Nazi cunts!.

saddam saidso said...

clegg will inevitably support cameron and obama in their ugly murderous wars of aggression - he will write the name of the liberal party into history, briefly pausing to dip his quill into a well of muslim blood.

saddam saidso said...

clegg will inevitably support cameron and obama in their ugly murderous wars of aggression - he will write the name of the liberal party into history, briefly pausing to dip his quill into a well of muslim blood.

Anonymous said...

'We want reform. We voted for reform.'

Really? Cos it looked like you got fuck all votes to me...

Looks like most people voted for no reform at all

Anonymous said...

perhaps if the muslims would stop pissing about in the stoneage and join the rest of us in the 21st century then the world might progress a great deal better

kingoldby said...

Well done OH. You stood up and spoke your message loudly. You might not have got many votes, but a lot of people heard what you are saying.

That is worth a lot. Keep up the good fight.

caesars wife said...

For some reason OH I agree with your post , but I am little worse for wear and a load of empties need putting in a box and taking up the recycle bin .

To put it mildy despite getting result right betting tactics failed as I had UKIP , eng democrats and BNP on to win at least one seat , and a couple of con gains in bonnie scotalnd and morley , so got swing right just area wrong DOH!

The horse trading is a bit odd and delicate and will be ashame if the ruin slips off quietly as some sort of deal broker .

Wasted vote ? perhaps I am more worried that this deal will waste my life whilst the culprits keep in position and free of justice for corrupting the country.

Goodnes knows what this means for right wingers , Simon Heffers article is interesting , will work on that when my head is better and we can tell what the horse trading does and doesnt mean .

crapone said...

basically a deserved communal pat on the back for the blogosphere, but big credit to bloggers such as old holborn and guido fawkes for engineering this bunged-up parliament through their inspired pursuit of mp's dodgy expense claims. especial praise due to the person whose idea initiated this campaign - probably not staines, and certainly not me. i also feel that paul staines should be singled-out for commendation as the man who successfully degraded conservative political debate and neutered the tory party. well done that man.

crapone said...

basically a deserved communal pat on the back for the blogosphere, but big credit to bloggers such as old holborn and guido fawkes for engineering this bunged-up parliament through their inspired pursuit of mp's dodgy expense claims. especial praise due to the person whose idea initiated this campaign - probably not staines, and certainly not me. i also feel that paul staines should be singled-out for commendation as the man who successfully degraded conservative political debate and neutered the tory party. well done that man.

crapone said...

basically a deserved communal pat on the back for the blogosphere, but big credit to bloggers such as old holborn and guido fawkes for engineering this bunged-up parliament through their inspired pursuit of mp's dodgy expense claims. especial praise due to the person whose idea initiated this campaign - probably not staines, and certainly not me. i also feel that paul staines should be singled-out for commendation as the man who successfully degraded conservative political debate and neutered the tory party. well done that man.

Steve Tierney said...

You're alright, OH. You run a fun campaign, you write an interesting blog - and you clearly care about the country.

I wont sign your petition because I don't agree with you on this. The only way to fiscal sanity and to get Big State out of our faces is with a Conservative government.

Sorry, mate. You're wrong on this. And if people followed your guide we'd end up completely and utterly shafter. Moreso even than Gordon Brown has achieved.

As for Greece - there's nothing big or clever about rioting, actually. When you're skint, destroying the wealth you do have is as dumb as muck.

Nor does hurting and killing people actually make anything better. Nor does stamping your foot and waving banners materialise money in the country coffers. Only honest work, thrift and spending within your means does that. Ask you gran. She'll tell you.

Saved by NuClegg and the ShitEaters, says it all, really. said...

Congratulations to you, OH, regardless of the vote count.

I sincerely hope you run again.

A "big up", to you, as they say.

Old Holborn said...

Steve,

I done good by your boy in Cambridge last night.

Those that can do

Thorpe said...

Old Holborn,

I'm a Cambridge voter. I didn't vote for you (committed Tory) , but am genuinely interested. I thought your pitch was different, engaging, and I thought you'd get a couple of thousand votes, plus some national news coverage. I thought the "flying models in their underwear" idea was brilliant. OK, I didn't follow every channel news item, so I may have missed an item on you.

So how come only 145 votes? Other Independents elsewhere got much more than that. I think you deserved more than that. Any post-event analysis?

TGR Worzel said...

Spot On. I completely agree with you Old Holborn.

Catflap said...

PR,what difference will that make when the lion share of Parties are lefty cunts supported by thick bastards?
Except being stuck with even more lefty cunts for longer that is.
Reform the fucking Conservative party and get UKIP blokes inside the tent pissing out.
This is the best oppurtunity for years to get a strong conservative party that isn't up its own arse and will represent the vast majority in this country for a change.
The voting system is fine it is the parties who need reforming.

Thank you again for running OH.

Anonymous said...

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the gospel of envy. Its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery" - Winston Churchill

never a truer word spoken

sixtypoundsaweekcleaner said...

Any post-event analysis?

Yeah, make sure the MSM are required by law to give the same amount of air-time to everyone who stands, so there is no bias.

In other words, UKIP gets an invite to all debates, as much as Conservative, as much as BNP. We are meant to be a democracy after all, aren't we?

the splendour falls on castle walls said...

22:43

afraid you're pissing in the wind, cat. not only are the conservatives failing to consider a repeal of the anti-libertarian fox-hunting and smoking bans, but they are now looking to railroad us through the long dark tunnel into the garlic-munching continent of proportional representation. we are about to lose our traditional first-past-the-post electoral system and become fully-fledged euros without a fag, or a horn. for our children, england will soon be no more than a bedtime story from grandad. tragic - what next one wonders. the queen may be well-advised to keep a firm grip on her nut - or at least take out insurance with lloyds. ding dong. sad days. big ben gone metric too. what the fuck.

the splendour falls on castle walls said...

22:43

afraid you're pissing in the wind, cat. not only are the conservatives failing to consider a repeal of the anti-libertarian fox-hunting and smoking bans, but they are now looking to railroad us through the long dark tunnel into the garlic-munching continent of proportional representation. we are about to lose our traditional first-past-the-post electoral system and become fully-fledged euros without a fag, or a horn. for our children, england will soon be no more than a bedtime story from grandad. tragic - what next one wonders. the queen may be well-advised to keep a firm grip on her nut - or at least take out insurance with lloyds. ding dong. sad days. big ben gone metric too. what the fuck.

Anonymous said...

BNP loses all 12 seats in Barking and Dagenham council
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/england/8668885.stm

Its amazing what you can do with a few hundred fraudulent postal votes and as many bussed-in immigrants in council housing.

Genius !

st tony the baptist said...

21:12

well let me see, clegg's islamophobic scaremongering about dirty-bombs is wholly unfounded - i mean, terrorism just ain't what it used to be...british airspace has only been closed once since 9/11, and that was when osama had one poppy-spliff too many, mistakenly dumped his improvised nuclear suitcase down an icelandic volcano, and contrived to effect a cataclysmic rupture of the earth's upper crust. to be fair, i blame this new boy on the block, obama - false-flag operations were all so much better organised under my mate george dubya bush.

cherie said...

23:35

i blame this new boy on the block, obama - false-flag operations were all so much better organised under my mate george dubya bush.

barack's got a nice bum tho'.

st tony the baptist said...

23:39


Simon said...

Erm Holborn if you support 'PR' then what you will find is a centre-left/left hegemony. That's why Labour has had the Damascene conversion.

You want change but you seem to want it to go to an unprincipled fag (see his school history) and an unelected Lord.

The VOTING public have spoken and it seems to be 'piss off Gordon' coupled with a pinch of 'We like you Dave but we just can't trust the Tories'.

Looking at the figures, only 1-2% extra from the VOTING public would have given a majority to Dave.

harry geller said...

23:35

in fact, the twin towers were never destroyed - there was a huge conspiracy you see, and the cia painted them out completely with a craftily developed invisible ink. exactly the same principle as making spoons disappear, actually.

caesars wife said...

No point in me giving my penneth worth its a job for the pros to sort this out . As pointed it out it should have been the conservatives another 2% and job done.

If you watched NN though the speculation that the banks in the high deficet countries are becomming insolvent again suggests that the debt is out of control .

Some earlier posts were wondering about riots CW adds some caution , riots do not make the economic problems less costly , indeed where an economy is weak hindering trade or sales , just makes it worse , better to let what business you have continue to function . Thats whats so mad about strikes .

Perhaps you get the idea now why running up such a large debt is really bad , as it limits your goverment levers to invest where it is now needed . The ruins idea to invest in the banks and high cost public services may yet turn out to be a terrible flawed mistake .

welfare state safe with clegg said...

22:06

The only way to fiscal sanity and to get Big State out of our faces is with a Conservative government.

shame we haven't got a conservative party to form a conservative government. tax-cutting? reducing public expenditure? no, no, that was old conservatism. now we've got new conservatism and it's gonna knock new labour out their socks...sort of liberal cluster-bombing with a conscience, i believe...

cameron-obama crypto-communist axis said...

01:35

this coalition between the liberals and the conservatives could be highly tricky to negotiate given that the conservatives are now drifting further left than the liberals and show no signs of changing direction. errr...how about cameron does a deal with labour? problem solved.

Angry Exile said...

As someone who lives with it let me explain what PR will give you.

Yes, it will give seats to the BNP, Commies, Greens etc, and on that I agree with Old Holborn. So what if it does? It'll also give seats to UKIP, probably a few independents and maybe nascent parties like LPUK. Goose and gander stuff, not a problem. The problem, or at least the first one, is that it will do precisely fuck all about the cronyism of the main parties and the unaccountability of their MPs.

Let me introduce Senator Stephen Conroy, a tool of the worst ordure, whose policy baby is government filtering of the internet to the entire fucking country. How do we get rid of the authoritarian prick? Answer: we can't because PR makes him at least as safe - probably more so - as any British MP in a reliably safe seat for their party. For a start he's a Victorian Senator so most of the country get no say anyway, but it's PR that keeps us here in Victoria from getting rid of the bastard. PR means party lists, and as long as Conroy is in the good books of the Australian Labor Party (please send spare vowels to Canberra) he'll be at or near the top of their list and absolutely guaranteed his Senate seat even if the ALP lose the popular vote in the Senate election here. The guy is literally fireproof since only the ALP has the power to fire him. We voters certainly don't.

Do you want that for the House of Commons? Do you want to give the Labial Conservocrats even more power to impose a collection of yes men, lobby fodder, fuckwits, spivs, tools and chancers on the electorate? If so then PR is just what you want. If not then look for something else.

The second problem is representation. Who is my Senator? Is it Conroy? Or is it one of the other five ALP Senators? Or one of the half dozen Liberals? Or the microparty madman from Family First? Because there are no constituencies the answer is none and all of them. Even if you consider the state of Victoria as a large multi-member constituency PR has weakens the link between representatives and constituents, particularly since nearly all serve at the pleasure of their parties rather than Victorian voters. That's not a huge problem here because we have constituency MPs in the House of Representatives for that - the Senators are there to represent the states and the role of the Senate is more or less what the House of Lords is for. For that PR is just fine, though party lists preventing easy dismissal of crap Senators is still a problem.

If you want to get rid of the Lords and have an elected chamber PR is a fantastic idea. But as a replacement for FPTP? If it happens I think many will soon be bitterly disappointed that the chance to replace the busted FPTP system with something that works was instead squandered on PR. You'll get your minor parties in but in the main parties, the ones that will actually form governments, you'll get even less accountability than you have now. FPTP has certainly got to go but don't jump from the frying pan to the fire.

upside-down cake said...

what we have here, in my honest opinion, are three party leaders talking about doing deals when they should all be resigning immediately following their universal dismal electoral performance and a common betrayal of their traditional party political principles.

the anal anarchist said...

02:08

would proportional representation affect the order in which we line the fuckers up against the wall?

adam said...

PR is the EU system
stop supporting the EU you cunt

its the EU that needs 'electoral reform'

WAKE UP said...

Actually, this election may not even be legitimate, what with bullshit expat immigrant "family" votes, soldiers whose voting papers arrived "too late", and people prevented from voting through confusion and overload at the booths on the day.

Anonymous said...

My prediction.

Clegg will go with the Tories, and the tories will offer a referendum on PR, only it wont be PR it will be a main party rigged version of PR a bit like the EU vote but more rigged, this will ensure the main 3 never get threatend but everyone else gets stuffed.

also it will be rejected, the system we currently have works too well for the NWO to dump it unless it is even more rigged than the last one.

The NWO press will try and murder it while the other parties remain quiet.

You will NOT get any PR system that is worth a damn.

Put it this way, the PR `style` systems we currently have experience of, kept raising the threshold bar every time the BNP made any progress to try and keep them out.

That is democracy inj this country and that's all you really need to know.

You can bet your house on it.

Anonymous said...

@ Angry Exile

It is an easy enough thing to retain the constituency link and to have either national or local top up lists with STV PR.

You said it yourself, PR allows real representation by giving smaller parties a chance. It would also encourage people to engage with politics.

As for allowing SOME politicians to cling on to a PR party list, well what do you think we have now?? Three FPTP mafia families dragging down everything civilised and decent about this country and sowing widespread disaffection and fatalism.

Anonymous said...

adam said...
PR is the EU system
stop supporting the EU you cunt

its the EU that needs 'electoral reform'

8 May 2010 03:46

Its not true PR, it is the de hondt (sp) system, it favours parties that have the most votes more than true PR would, it also has a threshold cut off point I believe cutting off the smaller parties that would otherwise get a seat.

In short, it is bullshit, as you would expect from the EU, and even then the elected cockroaches have no power worth a shit, that is left to the NWO.

in short IF you get PR you will still get a crooked system.

Anonymous said...

"You said it yourself, PR allows real representation by giving smaller parties a chance. It would also encourage people to engage with politics."

Which is why you WON'T get it, a rigged bullshit version just as crooked as the one we have, perhaps the the NWO media might not kill it, otherwise the NWO media will kill it stone dead and the sheep will do what they always do - follow the media.

wakey, wakey!

Anonymous said...

@ Anon 07.00

I know

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
@ Angry Exile

It is an easy enough thing to retain the constituency link and to have either national or local top up lists with STV PR.

You said it yourself, PR allows real representation by giving smaller parties a chance. It would also encourage people to engage with politics.

As for allowing SOME politicians to cling on to a PR party list, well what do you think we have now?? Three FPTP mafia families dragging down everything civilised and decent about this country and sowing widespread disaffection and fatalism.

8 May 2010 06:56

Spot on!

The candidates are all parashuted into safe seats anyway, list or no list they have their bloody list! and if that wont work they use the house of lords to ignore our democratic choice.

If the party clings to the unpopular morons then their share of the vote gets cut, as PR should directly hold the party accountable in relation to its staff.

If anything it would lead to the sacking and higher accountability of these freeks, if the public are too stupid to punish the parties that hold such people then the people deserve the parliment they get.

Anonymous said...

I am Stan said...
Holby said-stan

I am trying to stop a riot, not start one.


Whaaaaat!!,youve been hanging around with the establishment too long,bring it on I say...

7 May 2010 16:36

That's because you are a cock!

I look forward to seeing you on the news later tonight being lead away by the police.

UAF mong!

Anonymous said...

"From the BBC and now referenced on forums and blogs:

"1559: Gareth Kerr from Mid Glamorgan, Wales, writes: In all honesty, I would support a Tory Lib Dem alliance. Here in the Rhondda, a police van is driving around and thanking people who voted Labour over the loudhailer. I always thought the police were A-political but under Labour they have changed drastically. Time now for serious change. "

Absolute fucking disgrace."

Sounds like bullshit and you got suckered.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
Stan's primal savage urges are once again surfacing.

7 May 2010 16:39

Stanley's a ultra left wing, white, UAF soafa soaker, who likes a drink.

He like to play at being an ethnic minority(tired old lefty trick that no longer works and is counter productive) as he thinks it gets a better reponse, to try and reinforce his own predudices when he is just a pathetic old lefty bedwetter, who cried when communism collapsed.

His hatred of Labour is because they sold out their communist roots and he has never forgiven them.

like all left wing control freek social engineers He would march 90% of the country into a gas chamber/gulag if they did not agree with him seeing as he admires Stalin and other mass murderers of the left. He hates democracy as democracy has proven to reject commusim so he tries to subvert and undermine a nation using other methods, in the hope of achiving his communist goal.

He hides his plans for you by trying to silence anyone who is not communist with the oppressive and crass `Nazi` quote, thinly masking but not quite, his own mass extermination dreams and hopes.

Funny thing is, if Stan ever got his way he would be the first person the communists would target, being the useless soafa soaker that he is.

Ignore his violent ramblings, he is trying to set you up, like a typical left wing subversive.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
'We want reform. We voted for reform.'

Really? Cos it looked like you got fuck all votes to me...

Looks like most people voted for no reform at all

7 May 2010 21:34

Then you will not fear a referendum then tosser!

Angry Exile said...

@ Anon 06:56

Yes, STV is a better alternative but STV is STV. Some people might call it a form of PR. I just call it STV. For what it's worth I'm a fan of these sort of systems, but you are not going to fix what's wrong with UK politics by changing for something that guarantees safety for the parasites to something else that guarantees safety for the parasites but allows the small concession of minor party representation.

My ideal would be Queensland/NSW style OPV, yet to be adopted at federal level or anywhere else in Australia yet, for the Commons (and the House of Reps here) and PR for the upper house, if Britain decides that now is finally the time to have an elected chamber in place of the Lords - worth it just to fuck up the Mandelsnake if you ask me. But as I've said elsewhere that's no guarantee against placemen and cronies in safe seats. The best suggestion I've seen is in The Plan - open primaries to water down the influence of the parties and the power of recall so that crap MPs can be brought back to face their electorate at any time. Put those two measures in, especially the second, and even FPTP is improved. Put it in with an AV type system and a revising chamber elected by PR and you could have something really special. One chamber that can mostly but not always form a working majority, and one with representatives from many smaller parties and probably some independents to scrutinise, amend and where necessary block shithouse legislation. The only other thing that would be needed is to tear up the Parliament Act.

Electoral reform is on everybody's mind at the moment, and what worries me is that this might not happen again for a lifetime or more. It'd be a shame to blow this opportunity for really meaningful reform on simply swapping one flawed system for another.

Angry Exile said...

PS Whatever you do don't for Christ's sake don't go for vanilla Preference Voting. In a few months tims I'm going to be voting again here, and again I'll have a choice of half a dozen people I wouldn't give the time of day to. And with PV and compulsory voting it's impossible to avoid voting for someone I can't stand as long as there's one candidate that I do like. Steer well clear unless, as I said, OPV is on the menu.

Anonymous said...

"for engineering this bunged-up parliament through their inspired pursuit of mp's dodgy expense claims. especial praise due to the person whose idea initiated this campaign"

Probably the state/NWO in order to flush out most of the people that might prove to be a problem as they close down democracy. some will be patsys to make up the numbers others i believe were targeted.

after all the system cleared then to do this abuse and then destroys them.

what better way for the NWO to shake off some long standing MPs, while ignoring others.

Guido had a hand in it alright and strangely enough Guido seems to dance to the NWO tune at every critical moment and every NWO cause!

amnesty anyone? NWO agenda

Craven support for Tories for election anyone? NWO agenda

Guido is now a spent force, his bias was intolerable, he is mainstreme MSN and all that entails.

Anonymous said...

"Steve Tierney said...
You're alright, OH. You run a fun campaign, you write an interesting blog - and you clearly care about the country.

I wont sign your petition because I don't agree with you on this. The only way to fiscal sanity and to get Big State out of our faces is with a Conservative government."

Ha ha ha, what a twat!

The EU? it can do what it likes and Dave helps them at every turn.

The climate change bulldust and TAX? oh yes billionair Spak loadsamoney will enjoy shoving that down your `little` state throat!

The totalitarian police state measures being brought in by the EU with Daves blessing? small state huh!

Take up supporting football, it's less dangerous for the rest of us and you will look less ignorant.

Anonymous said...

Amazing how many people still think that Zanulab was Socialist. It was far removed from any Ture/Real socialism as you could get. Like the "Con-Dems", Zanulab was/is a form of Uber-Capitalism.

Sorry No change given.

Field Marshall Watkins said...

Anon what are you on about? Uber-capitalist? Unless you're only talking about the state and it's corporate partners then yes, they impose socialism on everybody else though.

Helps to transfer wealth and property rights away frfom the little people. So essentially it's a two tier system. Corporate fascism at the top, socialism beneath.

Anonymous said...

@ Angry Exile

"but you are not going to fix what's wrong with UK politics by changing for something that guarantees safety for the parasites to something else that guarantees safety for the parasites but allows the small concession of minor party representation"

I`m struggling to understand the rationale behind this. The more democratic a society is, the less scope for abuse the parasites have, reminding me of Churchill`s quote, "Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time."

Under STV PR, smaller parties can establish themselves in parliament and a real dialogue can then take place amongst people and the media. That is the point and that is what a parliament is supposed to do - represent and change. I think you are failing to see the forest for the trees here. The problem this country faces is essentially a cultural problem. People are increasingly giving up on the idea of civil society and are voting just to entrench themselves against one side or another of a hostile political class.

It may not be the panacea to all our ills but it is a good place to start. Citizen initiated referenda and recall of MPs would also make a big difference of course but FPTP has got to go.

Gobshite said...

Holby,

Could you knock up a Pie Chart for how many seats each party would get under PR, STV, and whatever other weird shit they might have in mind?

FPTP is fucking wrong, and must be replaced!

Angry Exile said...

@ Anon 10:42

What I'm saying is that there is an opportunity to make a really big change, but you're probably not going to get another opportunity any time soon. You're asking for steps in the right direction. Fair enough, but the next step might not happen for a century. I suggest you should be demanding a non-stop express ride to the best possible system, not settling for steps in the right direction. Yes, almost anything is better than FPTP, but as I said I live where they have a PR based electoral system - to be pedantic it's Prefs and, Mrs Exile informs me, STV type PR for the Senate (I didn't have the vote last time round).

Want to know how different it feels to be living with such a system as compared to FPTP?

Fuck all different.

I was bitterly disappointed to see that despite these highly thought of electoral systems the same bloody problems apply here as in the UK. The only minor improvement - and in practical terms it is minor - is the representation of some of the small parties. There is that going for it, I'll grant you, and obviously that's a good thing. But it's far less important than being able to put the power of hiring and firing the cunts where it really should be - in the hands of the electorate. With that I'd actually rate FPTP above Prefs, PR, OPV AV/AV+ without it. Not that I'm saying that's a reason to keep FPTP, just that by settling for a simple change in the way voting works without putting the job security of MPs where it really should be I think Britain will be settling for second best, and I think many will be a disappointed as I was when they realise that the opportunity for further reform, i.e. to complete the job, might not happen again in their lifetimes.

Probably just one chance. No half measures. Just my 2¢, that's all.

Anonymous said...

By best possible system, I assume you are talking about different options altogether, things like MP recall, referenda and electoral reform? Well, what is being played out right now is how Nick Clegg is about to betray us on electoral reform specifically.

If you are saying that STV PR will "buy off" expectations of greater democratic reforms I am thinking where would those reforms come from except through parliamentary representation anyway? I also don`t see how FPTP gives any more "hiring & firing" power than would PR.

I know that your 2 cents is on the side of the angels as well ,maybe if all of us added up our 2 cents together we could hire a great big fucking tank and drive it down to Westminster?

Angry Exile said...

Yes, absolutely. A package of several reforms:

* Referenda (thanks, missed that one)
* Recalls
* Primaries
* Voting system for Commons
* Elected upper house, even though arguably it's been a more effective opposition than the Tories the past ten years, but it's got plenty of timeservers, cronies and placemen - not to mention the Mince of Darkness Mandelsnake - and its wide open to be stuffed with even more.
* Voting system for the upper house

I'm not saying all or none at all because any one of them will be an improvement. But if there is now a mood for reform I feel the sensible thing to do is try to achieve as much as possible. I'm not saying that one reform, say voting system, will "buy off" the expectation of further reforms so much as satisfy the current appetite for change. The country may take decades to develop that appetite again.

FPTP with recall and open primaries would have more hiring and firing power than AV etc without, but not through any wonderful benefit of FPTP itself. The hiring and firing would come solely from the recalls and primaries. Without them FPTP would clearly be the same as it is now: shithouse.

Like the tank idea, but I reckon we could buy a hell of a lot of cheese wire for 2¢ each and spend the rest on celebratory pies at Mrs Miggins Pie Shoppe.

Lutney Chocker said...

"
Yes, PR will give the BNP a voice, but we wouldn't have 1 million illegals in this country."

About fucking time too; I'm sick of being an illegal voter.

I can't see Labour delivering STV (but plenty of VD instead).

Lutney Chocker said...

I want some American stuff:

1. separation of legislature and executive (we elect a president via a run-off system); and a PR parliament.

2. Turn Lords into elected senate, each one FPTP linked to a county or something.

3. a bill of rights/constitution with REAL FREEDOM of speech (an end to cryptofascist incitement laws) and our OWN human rights judiciary that over-rides the EU

4. public execution for former Labour ministers (or at least flogging).

Anonymous said...

I am Stan said...
Yes, believe it or not, Nick Griffin's party was the second major winner in this election


Hahahahahhahahahah...Nazi cunts!.



I think you a little brain dead dear

PDC said...

You say 15 million don't want a Tory govt.

Well, 17 million don't want a labour govt, and 19 million don't want a libdem govt.

However you try to circle the square, the fact is, more voted for the Conservatives than any other party.

You can't go adding up the numbers of people who didn't vote for them as though they were a vote to keep the Tories out. If you do that then you are conceding that they were not votes to actually put the party of your choice in.

simontinsley said...

Actually, what we got was this, in terms of power: http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/6589/94886980.jpg

Calculated using the Banzhaf Power Index. So, we got what we asked for. PR gives the smaller parties a disproportionate amount of power.

If, on the other hand, we'd have voted under PR and the results would have been as you've posted on your blog, the power would be, and that's assuming a Lab-Con coalition is possible. In reality it means all power to the Lib Dems as they get to choose the next government. Far, far less proportional.

http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/9660/95991522.jpg

So, PR is undemocratic and disproportionate.

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