Wednesday, 7 April 2010

the Daily Grind

The "minimum wage bus" telling people what they are worth

Will Straw has just proudly distributed a link to a report from the Institute of Fiscal Studies in the vain hope that some think tank blurb will convince voters that poor people are better off under Labour. I presume in the vain hope that poor people will vote Labour. Do have a read. I doubt many poor people will.

Poverty in the UK is a myth. Nobody dies of starvation anymore. There are no work houses. Instead, a combination of the minimum wage and massive State benefits means that we have an idle poor, trapped between a rock and a hard place.

Whilst they sit at home belching Stella and watching Jeremy Kyle, paid for by you and me, the fields are full of Poles and Latvians earning money and sending it back home to their families. We have entire generations of Britons who will never know work because they don't need it and don't want it.

I have no problem with people not working, just don't ask me to pay for it. If a Pole can travel 700 miles to pick carrots, is it really asking too much that Dazza climbs out of his PS3 wanking pit and earns his own beer money?

Well, to a Labour politician, yes it is.

13 years of a "socialist" government and do we actually have any real socialism for the "people"? Do we have jobs for life? Pensions? Public housing? Steel mills and factories? The East Germans were the envy of the Soviet bloc and once reached the dizzy heights of the 8th richest nation in Europe. Sure they had to put up the state intruding into every minutae of their lives, but so do we.

So where are the benefits for the British "working Man" that Socialism should have brought him, bruvvers?

None. You are too lowly skilled to earn the minimum wage, because we set the minimum wage, so you can't work. So stay at home. Here's some money, sit down, watch the telly and be thankful for Socialism. All your life, comrade. Now, we can't offer you a job, a house or a pension. We can't offer you cheap public transport and two weeks holiday on the Black Sea, or solidarity with your comrades, or cheap vodka and fags to make it bearable, like our Soviet friends did, we just want you to go back to your living rooms and stay there. Forever.

Labour have given them niether

We need to set the poor free. Handing them endless benefits just enslaves them to poverty and the all powerful State even more.

And as if by magic, Mandelson says...

In future, Labour will look more to voluntary sectors to deliver public services


Uncle Marvo said...

Allow me to be the first to explain exactly what you're entitled to.

Exactly as much as someone wants to pay you for your effort, skill and experience.

Fact. If you want more, then work harder, smarter, or practise.

PT Barnum said...

"Poverty in the UK is a myth. Nobody dies of starvation anymore."

Almost true. The elderly, both inside hospitals and in their own homes, do starve, in the old food-or-fuel conundrum, perhaps because they're too proud (or confused) to hand over their lives and dignity to the State.

bofl said...

you say that you want things to change......well trying walking in someone elses shoes and actually find out what is going on .......

i used to have a good job in London..
thousands and thousands have been laid off....most are younger than me.

the 'dole' make it very hard for English people to get temporary officer at my local job centr even told me that they do not want us to get temp jobs!!!!!

if i take a job fruit picking then my claim will be stopped!
even if i just do 2 days work!
i would then lose my tax relief all stopped.........

a barrage of letters would then hit my doormat.....i would then have to reapply ......lots of forms......the main one is 40 pages long!!!!!!! so everything gets stopped and the dhs usually fuck everything up!!!!

letters from banks,landlords,council etc.......

if i find a part-time job then i will not be able to keep any of the money!

i would like to change profession......i already have professional qualifications.......i cannot go to uni as i have to be available for work! consists of Clait 1 or bricklaying!

iwent to see an employment agency working for the govt.......
i have a gap on my cv..........

she told me employers would think i had been in prison!!!!!!!!

employers like joe public are effing well dreaming.all they want is people that are currently employed and will generate revenue on day one.........this is bollocks....even working on a checkout requires training.......

how the hell is everyone supposed to be working in the middle of the worst recession for 60 years????
if ou have a job it is easy to shout.........with 8 million unemployed why cant you see that it is difficult to find work?

try living on £65 a is shit!

Uncle Marvo said...


2 things

Thing 1: If this hideous bureaucracy was gone then there would be work, and soon. The money stolen from the proletariat in tax is used to stuff up companies like BT and PwC, and to fund ridiculous projects that don't need doing, and "charities" like ASH. That's why there's £65 pw left for you. I shall be unemployed soon, because of Big Co Stupidity, Red Tape, and Bureaucracy. One reason why I want to stop it.

Thing 2: Before starting an argument with someone you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, you're a mile away and you've got their shoes.

bofl said...

ps.the reason people dont starve is because they can borrow money on credit cards,bank loans etc........

there are over 1 million with iva plans who have debts between £40-60,000!!!!!!!!!

there are now a record amount of bankruptcies in the uk too.........

so we dont starve-

far from making a good politician i think that you are the same as the current fascists.........with an attitude that you know best but have no experience of what you profess to understand..........

i have been i am seeing the other side.....

bofl said...

marvo.i agree..i have paid in fooking farsends!!!!!!!!

honestly.....i have paid in shedloads.....but in my 34 years since leaving school i have been unemployed.......which meant i used up all my savings........i even went to work in frankfurt because i couldnt get a job here.....the irony was that i ended up with all of my clients being based in london!

in germany i was paying 57% tax!!!!

if the shit govts stopped stealing our money then most would be able to save........

Uncle Marvo said...


I empathise, been rich, been poor. Liked rich better.

It is cuntstruck in the extreme that you would pay, say, £15,000 a year on "dues", for, say, 30 years, being the rough end of HALF A MILLION QUID, spending the rest on family etc, saving a pittance, then be offered £65 a week for, say, a year, being the rough end of TWENTY GRAND. The difference between those figures gives you limited access to antibiotics if you can be arsed to queue all day, allows your children to receive an adequate, basic education, and funds some stupid bitch to have eleven kids by fuck knows how many different fathers, whilst paying for some other foreign Johnny to change his/her sex to whatever.

I tell you, the jails are NOT BIG ENOUGH to cope.

Anarchy is the correct word, but has the wrong connotations.

Get over to Ranty's for some real wisdom.

bofl said...

some good ideas there at rantys.......

i am however trying to set up something and i have an escape plan...(no dole or quangos involved)

this country is run by morons.......

and we have nothing industry,the oil is running out and our captains of industry are timid toads!

all they want to do is take a good business and milk it...(like the dragons den )....

i can do without that kind of help!

jdennis_99 said...

A few thoughts:

Labour (and virtually all other political parties) now use 'relative poverty' rather than 'absolute poverty' as the yardstick. The difference is that relative poverty hampers your ability to interact with society in the way that most people do. Absolute poverty means that you either starve or freeze to death. There's arguments both ways about which one to use.

The real issue is the interaction between a grossly unfair benefits system and the minimum wage, which creates something the politicians jokingly refer to as the 'benefits trap'. What's the point in working when you can get more money for staying at home, drinking Stella and watching Jeremy Kyle?

A simple solution would be to cap State Benefits at 80% of the net minimum wage. No one who isn't working should ever receive more money than someone who is.

Next, tighten eligibility for State Benefits so that they're only given at the point of need, not desire. 'I need money to put stupidly loud speakers on the parcel shelf of my Renault Clio' doesn't qualify.

Finally, for anyone who can work but finds themselves claiming benefit due to unemployment, they should be assigned a job that is conditional to them continuing to receive money. No work, no benefits.

Just a thought...

bofl said...


so if you lose your job you are sentenced to work for the govt?

stars on backs maybe? do you then find another job?

there are currently 400,000 jobs in the uk........and 8 MILLION not working!!!!!!!!!

and most of those jobs are not suitable could i be a nurse when i have a banking background? work in edinburgh when i live in london?

should my alcoholic neighbour be forced to drive a bus?

imho there will NEVER be enough is wiping out jobs every day.........

50 years ago clerks sat in vast halls off threadneedle st. entering transactions into ledgers.......

now 1 person can do the work on a pc in a few hours..........

my dad used to work at fords in dagenham spraying cars on the night is now closed......

car factories have more people looking after the robots than making the cars!!!!!!!

if you are NOT unemployed then you dont know what it is like......

i know a lot of people who have given up .......
self employment is the only way out!

jdennis_99 said...


'So if you lose your job you are sentenced to work for the Government?'

Why the hell not? If you're being paid by them, why shouldn't you work for them? And the 'stars on backs' analogy is completely inappropriate - Hitler exploited the Jews as slave labour. This wouldn't be slave labour as they'd be being paid for it.

'How do you find another job?'
'There are currently 400,000 jobs in the UK and 8million not working! And most of these jobs are not suitable.'

That's what employment agencies are for, the most notable being the Job Centre. The idea is they match a person's skills with a job they can do. Admittedly, that doesn't always work, but that's because the civil servants are targeted at getting the claims numbers down as quickly as possible, not to actually get people into employment that they'll stick at.

If there aren't any jobs available for someone's qualifications or experience, then re-training is in order. Yes, it might be difficult, but it's also necessary.

And as for 'not enough jobs being available' - firstly, if we had a population that was actually prepared to work, rather than being content to sit on their arses all day, then businesses might actually want to do business in the UK and employ people.

Secondly - bloody rubbish. There's always work that needs doing. It might not be pleasant, but it needs doing.

The genuine unemployed, i.e. people who actually have a will to work, would not be in the system for very long. They'd re-train, get busy and get themselves a job. The whole idea is to target people in this 'benefits trap' - limit the attraction of staying out of work, and incentivise them to get back into work.

Uncle Marvo said...

Self-employment is your friend.

Most companies like to have self-employed people instead of permies, as they are easy to get rid of, have no HR overhead, and come out of OPEX rather than salary budgets.

Getting paid is sometimes tricky, especially in the huge companies.

Jill said...

I'd be all for capping benefits at 80% of minimum wage - if the minimum wage was a living wage, taking accommodation into account. As it stands, £5.80 an hour seems like an unstated subsidy to business.

OH - what is your view on the minimum wage?

Beware of Geeks bearing GIFs said...

Uncle Marvo - self employment and agile SME's are a good and necessary vehicle for generating wealth and jobs, but over the years the state has been rturning up the screws: one example that immediately sticks in my mind is the Labout dropped large company Corp Tax but silently increased it for SMEs while still having the audacity to say "we support small businesses in this global market".

Labour hate SMEs as they don't offer them kickbacks and as a demographic, don't normally vote Labour.

O/T Guido's Live Chat PMQs highlights are here - see if your funnies made it in Brown's last edition.

Old Holborn said...

I abhor the minimum wage

If your skills are only worth £3 an hour because you were too busy txting your mates to learn to read then you are forced by law to sit at home and do nothing.

Meanwhile, millions of willing immigrants do the job we are paying you not to do.

Uncle Marvo said...


Fair comment, but who said we'd be getting a Labour guv?

Also, it is possible as a Tiny Enterprise (TM) to offer a deal to a bigger corp that it simply can't refuse. Then once the foot is in the door ...

Beware of Geeks bearing GIFs said...


I agree, that is one way and that is the way we have done it.

I don't think we'll be getting a Labour government in a months time, but whoever is in, needs to drop the tax take and red tape for SMEs to compete effectively with other international players.

UK SMEs are effectively going into the 100m Olympics sprint with a large grand piano chained to their ankles. And we're not all Geoff Capes!

bofl said...

jdennis........employment agencies DO NOT work for candidates!

they find people that match job specs 100% exactly then forward their details.if they do not do this then employers will not use them.......

i have now sent out 250 cvs and not had 1 interview!

and holborn......can you read?

and for the 3rd time why aren't you standing in braintree instead of cambridge?

jdennis_99 said...


I did concede that the system doesn't work perfectly. All the more reason why the 'benefits trap' should be closed, so that the people who are receiving benefit genuinely deserve it.

And if there are no jobs available for qualifications or experience, re-training is necessary. It's not nice, it's not enjoyable, but surely it's preferable to being unemployed?

bofl said...

i mentioned clait 1 or bricklaying....

i was told by the dole to find some off i went.i was accepted by a university.went back to the dole.....'cant do that-you have to be available for work' !!!!!!!

i went to the local uni......(£55 million spunked on building a polythene tent) to do a tefl course....they wanted to see my 'O' levels........i burned the results with my school uniform 32 years ago.......after some deliberation they decided i should take an 'O' level in English!!!!!!!!!

i replied in my best anglo-saxon!

i could pay £1000 and take the course in Greenwich..if i had it...but the dole won't let me do it 'because i have to be available for work'......

i am fooking positive that most people haven't got the foggiest about what a shit is happening in the wonderful world of being unemployed.

it is a vicious circle.employers want quals yet you cannot get them!!!

Labour are talking (bollocks as usual) about creating 1 million hi tech jobs.......this is cock!

nearly all uk companies are 'offshoring' jobs..........'tech' means that it is easy to do!!!!

this week it has arisen that nhs records are being sent to after years of training who in the uk is going to pay someone £20,000 pa when they can get the indian graduates for £2 per day!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(£500 per year)

politicians and business in the uk regard people as a resource to any other..........none of them will do YOU or ME any favours!!!

which is why i am planning to emigrate as soon as i can.......

yardarm said...

bofl: am in yr situation to an extent, shunting between temp work and dole with a sick wife and fully understand what you`re talking about, even if some don`t.

Personally I find this site, like Guido`s bestiary, is good for a laugh, don`t expect to convert people to yr point of view. Sometimes Holborn, like Guido`s posters hurls down a brilliant shaft of illumination. Sometimes not.

All the best.

bofl said...

yardarm......i dont expect sympathy.....i am just explaining to people that think they know it all that they actually dont!

ask holborn about whether qualifications are needed in the wind business?

or can anyone just join the club?

dont worry...holby will find us all jobs when he is an mp..

good luck to you yardy

jdennis_99 said...


Your situation is a classic example of how the benefits system traps people and actually prevents them from working.

If you're actually making an effort to learn new skills and gain new qualifications, then the system should be rewarding you for that, not offering obstacles for it.

This 'available for work' requirement is irrelevant - if you could find a job, you wouldn't need re-training, would you? So it's mind-wretchingly stupid that they want you off the dole, but won't let you engage in the re-training that will allow you to do it.

I don't profess to know it all, or even know better than anyone else, but it seems to me that what is really lacking is the application of some common sense, not by you, but by the fuckwits who run the benefits system.

bofl said...

jdennis- there is no common sense with these fools.......

because it's all about ticking boxes..
like everything else with govt. all their ads about helping are just a deceit (to use gordons own words)...

i had a brilliant idea for a business so i approached an east of england 'board' for some advice.(not money).they had nice flashy brochures which said that they had contacts with 4000 businesses......i made an appointment.the girl had absolutely NO IDEA about the business (shipping was a part of it)......she said she would find out the answer........she did not get back to me...........we are an island with thousands of ships arriving/departing each week but nobody could answer........

in my experience we have a bizarre situation too where employers also live in a stupid dream........

over-qualified/under-qualified/too old/too young/employed/un-employed........will they fit in with the 'team'..........

i spent 30+ years in finance.
i phoned for a job at a (shitty)local school to work in the finance dept..........after telling a very stuck up bitch my experience (ie trading millions of £,euros,$ every day,being able to read balance sheets,spreads over libor etc she said that she didnt think i would be suitable as it was 'a very difficult job'..............i nearly broke the phone!

of course there are many that dont want to work.........but imho it is the minority........

perhaps i will send holborn my cv?

i am sure he would find me a job looking after windmills?


bofl said...

ps........i also phoned the DTI helpline.........because i wanted to buy xyz in another country and ship the product elsewhere ie not to the uk they couldnt help me!!!!!!!!!

how fooking daft is that?

the woman was most unhelpful and then asked me for my name!

i just put the phone down......

is it any wonder that our businesses are only interested in running protection rackets and cartels like utility companies and railways??

anything that needs more than 2 brain cells seems to be impossible !

Uncle Marvo said...


If you have a brilliant idea you don't need advice.

Just do it, and the best of British luck. The old-fashioned kind, before Liebore.

You *know* what to do.

adrian said...

I have a manifesto policy for you OH.

We should coin our own money instead of borrowing it from Private banks like the Bank of England ( Rothschild )
The NOT Bank of England

or the US Federal Reserve ( Rockefeller )

The NOT US Federal Reserve


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