Wednesday, 17 February 2010

Robert Green

Anna, our legal beagle writes:

A frisson of excitement ran through the blogosphere late last night as news of Robert Green’s arrest in Aberdeen spread.

The facts as they first appeared seemed electrifying, a legal advisor prevented from going about his business by a Scottish legal conspiracy? Grist to the blogosphere mill.

A little digging reveals more froth on this than a pint of Guinness.

Robert Green is not a legal advisor. He is a lay advisor, journalist and broadcaster. I have about my person a copy of a letter he wrote in January 2010 where he admits that he is a lay advisor when addressing the Mental Welfare Commission of Scotland. Copies of that letter freely available to anyone who is interested.

Robert Green, although a Shropshire man, is intending to stand as an independent candidate in the Aberdeen South ward in the forthcoming General Election. As a journalist and broadcaster he would be more than aware of the value of a good ’story’. Indeed, he has been touring the country giving a series of talks regarding his research into sexual abuse in the Aberdeen area. He should be more than aware of the laws of defamation and would definitely be aware of the difference between the standard of proof required in a civil case and that required for a criminal case.

Mr Green was allegedly intending to hand out pamphlets that claimed there was a conspiracy to pervert the course of justice on the part of some very senior legal and political figures in Scotland.

There are those who say that in the interests of ‘free speech’ anybody should be allowed to say anything they please at whatever time, based on whatever idea pops into their head. I don’t subscribe to that view, nor does the oft quoted Article 10 of the European Convention of Human Rights. ‘Freedom of Expression’ as it is known there is a qualified right. Qualified as John Stuart Mills always intended, by the harm principle. You don’t have the right to defame, or harm, individuals by your free speech.

Child abuse is possibly the most incendiary accusation that can be levelled against anyone today, and particular care should be taken before making it. Robert Green was allegedly about to level that accusation against senior political and legal figures. We should perhaps look at the basis on which he felt entitled to make that accusation before assuming a conspiracy to silence him.

The young woman involved – and I don’t propose to name her, for reasons I will explain later – has claimed for several years that she was sexually abused by a group of men connected to her father in Aberdeen. The medical evidence apparently corroborates this, and I have no difficulty in believing her. It is a sad fact of life that many girls with Down’s syndrome are both tactile and highly sexed, an unfortunate combination in highly vulnerable individuals, and as such they are disproportionately represented amongst the tragic list of those who suffer child abuse. I don’t make those comments in any sense of ‘excusing’ the men involved, it is for adults to make responsible decisions, but in sad acceptance of the fact that yes, she probably was abused. In my experience, parents of children with Down’s syndrome are only too aware of the dangers, and take extra precautions to make sure that their children are safe.

The allegations of abuse were investigated by Grampian police, at a senior level, and the young woman received compensation from the criminal injuries fund following evidence from a Grampain detective inspector who described Hollie as “a truthful witness to the best of her ability and an entirely innocent victim”. She received £13,500 which is the tariff payment for such cases. The evidential test is on the civil standard, namely the balance of probabilities. There is no requirement for corroboration.

The fact that she received compensation ‘as an innocent victim of violence’ under circumstances where no corroboration was required, cannot, under any stretch of the imagination be taken as proof that her allegations as to who had carried out the abuse would form credible or reliable evidence to carry out a criminal prosecution. The fact that Grampian police are not undertaking any prosecution of individuals named by this girl, where they have neither corroboration nor reliable evidence cannot be taken to be a conspiracy to pervert the course of justice – it is rather more a conspiracy to assert the course of justice.

Do you really want a society where you can find yourself labelled as a child abuser and forced to stand trial in many months time on the basis of an uncorroborated claim from a witness who can only tell the truth ‘to the best of her (diminished) ability’ – is that really the cause you are championing when you demand that those she has named stand trial?

Because there is another factor in this saga. Her Mother. The woman that Robert Green says was:

“assaulted and rendered unconscious by a group of assailants as she was about to enter her home. When she came to she found herself in Aberdeen Mental Institution and informed she was mentally ill”

We know from Robert Green’s letter to the Scottish Mental Welfare Commission that the Mother was ’sectioned’ in common parlance. We do not know what metal illness she may or may not have suffered from, nor who these alleged ‘assailants’ were – though we can surmise that they were in fact a community psychiatric nurse and a doctor, we can surmise that because otherwise the receiving officer at the mental institution would also have to be part of this ‘conspiracy’ if he were to receive a comatose tranquilised patient from any old gang of assailants. Since this occurred some 10 years before Robert Green wrote to the mental health commission we can also surmise that despite his alarmist language which reaches out to every tin foil hat reader in the universe that there may indeed have been sound reasons fro tranquilising her for the good of her health. I am not saying that this is so, merely that we actually have no evidence to the contrary.

So, we have a vulnerable mentally disabled girl who has almost certainly been sexually abused, by her Father amonst others, we have a Mother who has suffered such mental trauma at being made aware of her ex-husbands deeds that we are reasonably sure that she was taken to a mental hospital for her own good – and we have a prospective parliamentary candidate who thinks nothing of picking these two up and driving them half way across the country – from Cheshire to Bristol – in order to publicise his belief that the police should be prosecuting senior political figures, without corroborating evidence, of a heinous crime.

Enter the Scottish legal system, who in their ham fisted way, decide to start issuing injunctions to everyone who even dares to mention the matter – thus ensuring that the blogosphere is alive with pictures and identifying details of a young girls sexual life.

There are many unedifying figures hanging around child abuse cases. This is not the first case to attract faux legal advisers with a brief case full of pamphlets who spend their days and nights on-line discussing the intricacies of the latest child abuse. Nor will Robert Green be the first such who fancied his chances as a politician.

I don’t intend to name the young woman because if there is anything which comes close to the obscenity of child abuse, it is the abuse of a child which takes place when the self righteous decide to use her name and face to publicise themselves in the name of a variation of ‘free speech’ that they would be the first to decry if it were turned on them or in the name of a demand for criminal prosecution on such flimsy evidence – not that she was abused, but who had abused her, note – that the blogosphere would implode if there was any suggestion that Robert Green’s prosecution should rest on such evidence.



JJ said...

Some weird shit...
Watch out for Satanic Ritual Abuse (SRA) next on the Agenda, whereby the
procurator fiscal's wife flew around on a broomstick!

the beast said...

OH touched me up
Can I have 13k please?

Sir George of Formby said...

Bullet fired at Mrs Greigs window, which (aimed at head height) luckily bounces off...

Ok wheres the ballistics? Bounced off where, what about the damaged?. Come on coppers would have been swarming over the place once someone would have mentioned shooting over the blower.

Green's after a book / media rights outta this crap. You can see it coming.

Idiotic about the 'D' notice, though some 'sensative types' do tend to over-react.

It all smells a bit whiffy!

Shoot the Cunts said...

I believe there IS a cover-up in general surrounding this kind of thing and it's been running for many decades. The same situation pertains in the upper echelons of the Republican Party in the US, too. Satanic, ritual abuse. This murky business needs delving into and the guilty exposed and severely punished.

Time for Tea said...

Theres a retard woman in her 20s who often gets on the local train. She's a complete and utter BASTARD!
She once accused the guard of verbally abusing her. Point was we were in the same seating area, and all he asked her for was her ticket!
She got on her mobile and must have phoned some fucka in Social Services. Police met the train and my wife and I came forward to assist the guard who was in a state of shock at being on the verge of arrest. This cow just made stuff up. She could give exact times and details of the "verbal assault". Point was, she was oblivious to us sitting behind her. We assisted the guard, and told police what had happened. Police eventually took her off and escorted her to a waiting lady officer - no doubt for some Tea and biscuits!

catflap said...

My local press ran a story about this womans battle with the council and health authority concerning lack of care for her young teenage son who had ME.
Big front page photo of her and this lad in his pyjamas.
Accusations from her were abound in the story(Masons not implicated,thank god)against the authorities.
My mates son was freinds of the teenager.
The truth was this lad was playing his mum for a cunt.
I'm am not doubting the poor lass in this case has been abused by someone, but the broader story of conspiracy sounded shit.

Bertie said...

Satanic ritual abuse - BOLLOCKS!

Remember the US church story some years back, whereby a Preacher was arrested, and well over 100 women come forward with tales on how he abused them in a satanic cult. Trouble is the dates they gave - this guy proved he was,nt even in the State, and at one time he was in Canada! Apparently they all had been under his hypnotic powers...
etc, etc.

All you need now, is the right-wing Christians on this shite. And you'll have the set.

Freemasons, Lizards, Jews, Satan,
Aliens, Area51, Icke, and G_d knows what else in the pot. Anyone else I forgot?

Anonymous said...

I know there's a conspiracy because David Icke told me so. Alien Lizard People are porking mongoloid children in an attempt to create mongo-lizard hybrids.

If you can't see this, you're probably part of the conspiracy.

Holbeck_Wizard said...

Robert Green, Another HERO of the net, crusading against injustice, and protecting the welfare of others.

In truth a self-serving Media whore!
(or is it Pimp in this case?)

Anonymous said...

Bertie is a Jew. It's pretty obvious why he'd try to downplay the conspiracy angle.

Bertie said...

mongo-lizard hybrids

Bred by the Nephalim, to cause a drain on social services!

Anonymous said...


I see the BNP / Ickeans are around

Swiss Bob said...

Wow, from a paedophile ring to, it's all made up by a fantasist.

On the other hand, I listed in my short piece linking here: Kincorra, the Welsh scandal, Catholic church abuse in Ireland and our old 'friend' Margaret Hodge of Islington infamy.

So this shit does happen.

In some ways I'd rather it was all made-up, but didn't the BBC produce a Panorama programme and weren't the all the BBC journalists threatened with the sack if they continued?

Anonymous said...

My wife watched the Robert Green vids , thopugh one of the parts was missing. However, she (being more liberal than I), said if Anne Greigs brother had really caught Hollie+ her Dad having sex, he'd have punched his lights out, and informed the mother straight away. Yet he did nowt?

Ok the cock-ups made by Scottish police, do make it look conspiratorial - but I think this is due to bad judgment and big cock ups.

Anonymous said...

In some ways I'd rather it was all made-up, but didn't the BBC produce a Panorama programme and weren't the all the BBC journalists threatened with the sack if they continued?

One mans word,
The world according to GREEN.

Anonymous said...

Watch out for the Book / DVD

(No doubt will be stocked by Icke's publishing arm - and no one else is brave enough [stupid enough] to publish the truth!)

Pw: Onsit (a bench at ongar)

Ampers said...

Christ! This isn't news.

Surely it is a well known fact that there are large numbers of politicians, judges and senior civil servants involved in this sort of thing?


Ron Broxted said...

I knew from the start this story was a pile of shite. I glad to say I was not taken in like so many conspiracy theorist's that wallow in such tripe daily on this site. I see some even posted this story on the Indy live journal and even My Telegraph Fnrrr Fnrrr. I say to you ras clarts, check your facts twice, before looking like cunts for the rest of your lives.
I found it interesting however that mongs enjoy being touched up and being given a portion. That would explain my sisters insatiable appetite for black cock. I thought she got it from my old ma or dada.
I hope all those that got so outraged by this non story now hang their heads in shame.

Uncle Marvo said...

I always get scared when I hear "journalist and broadcaster".

Old Holborn said...

er...Ron. with the exception of your mum, I haven't heard any fat ladies singing yet

Ron Broxted said...

Why is my new webcam such a pisser? I just tried to have a video conversation on Skype with a nice looking Tai ladyboy in Bangkok and just as he was about to show me his cock the picture disappeared leaving me £20.oo lighter and still with a diamond cutter gripped in my bad hand. Anybody else had a problem with webcams?

Reg.Sgt Major Beaumont said...

Got an address and mobile number for your randy sister Ron, or is it the same as your old mums?

Anonymous said...

As with any illness or bad situation the risk of Munchausens by Proxy should always been borne in mind? Especially since a case like this would run and run.

Leading Seaman Staines said...

We all miss you Ron and the way you used to pull the train on those drunken drill nights on HMS Carolyn. Paddy the Stoker died of AID's did you know?

Fausty said...

For once, I disagree with Anna.

People should be allowed to say what they please - and face the consequences. If what they say is untrue, then anyone suing for defamation should win the case.

Downs Syndromers being highly sexed, I wouldn't know about. But even if it were true, to tar every DSer with the brush of "promiscuous" and therefore "dismissable" is highly questionable.

And Hollie's mother was deemed to be of sound mind by a psychiatrist - not the government-commissioned one.

The family courts are notoriously secretive and because of that and D notices, are able to act with impunity against ordinary people who do not have the funds or friends in high places to fight the system.

If Robert Green's credentials as a lay advisor and political wannabe disqualify him from making a case, then so should it disqualify all other politicos and lay advisors.

This case needs investigation and a LOT of sunshine shed on it.

Ron Broxted said...

Leading Seaman Staines, yes we did have fun, pusser's rum and loads of bum. I had no idea about Paddy dying from AID's, I knew he had giant warts on his cock. I think that's how I got one at the back of my throat.

DaveP said...

Anna neglected to mention that this case was never properly investigated by Grampian Police. Out of a number of children named to them, they only ever interviewed Hollie.

The trouble is people are going to think the worst here, and what is needed is some transparency from the authorities. The case should be put to a police force outside Scotland, for a thorough independent reinvestigation.

There have been stories of authority figures being involved in child abuse in Scotland for as long as I can remember. Most Scots are aware of them, and aware that the police and prosecuting authorities there are often corrupt, and stuffed FULL of freemasons. The people named as abusers have had loads of time in which to sue, if the allegations are false. Why are they silent?

Anonymous said...

Fausty said...
People should be allowed to say what they please

Fausty, your Judgement and shit stinks!

McVicar said...

We all got abused ~ mainly by Robert Green and Co.

Anonymous said...

In the vids he names names , if the named are innocent of all charges then they can sue for slander with impunity. I am a bit concerned at there being little official action/reaction on these allegations , it would put the whole thing to bed if the police were to state that they had thoroughly investigated all aspects , had spoken to the accused and the other abused kids (alleged).


Kill all Pedo's in the most cruel way possible said...

The cause of all this 'Peds under the bed' McCarthy style shit is that known Kiddy fiddlers are allowed back into society.
A Pedo's rights and freedoms trump yours and your kids.
If a pedo is unknown to the authorities or has yet to commit thier first crime, a CRB check is fucking useless as protection for your child.
The CRB check however is a great instrument to protect public bodies from litigation.
Remove known Pedo's from society for good and punish them in the most severe way.
That may deter the future Pedo as well.
As it stands,Pedo's walk free and we have to wear fucking nametags.

Anonymous said...

A pedo's rights does NOT trump mine or my kids. All depends whose LAW you STAND UNDER!

Anna Raccoon said...


I agree with you in principle, on the defamtion, with a caveat, where it involves high profile people, unfortunately lies have their boots on and halfway round the world etc before a defamtionc ase can kick in - that is unfair. In respect of Operation Ore, part of the reason that the original list was injuncted was the knowledge that it was comprised on names on credit cards, very many of which were later proved to have been cloned. surprise! People who populate porn sites may use dodgy credit cards!
Now if names had been released, including it is rumoured, cabinet ministers, their reputation would have been ruined long before it had been established that their credit card was one of those cloned.
You may think that all politicians deserve everything that is coming to them, and I wouldn't be far behind you on that, but I don't agree that anyone should be able to make any allegation simply in the name of free speech and its OK because you can get compensation later The harm cannot be undone.

On the issue of DS being highly sexed, you misunderstand me. I am absolutely not saying that they are promiscuous and therefore dismissable - not all all. I am saying that becasue they are very tactile and highly sexed, there are stupid idiotic people out there who take that as being evidence of their willingness to engage in sex, and who fail to act as adults should faced with someone vulnerable.
I am not saying that her allegations are dismissable - I believe them. I am saying that I quite understand that she is not capable of giving evidence to the standard of truthfullness that should be required by a criminal court. That is a different matter.
Of course her Mother was deemed to be of sound mind - she would not have left the hospital had she not been. Was she of sound mind on the day she was sectioned - that is the question? Section 14 allows for a 72 hour period to recover from a temporary trauma - you can be hysterical and a danger to yourself and others on day one and be deemed to be of sound mind 72 hours later. We don't know what section she was under.
With the family courts, I would agree with you - but not with the Mental Health Act - which has long attracted high profile lawyers to contest loss of liberty on a pro bono basis.
Robert Green's credentials do not disqualify him from making a case - I was pointing out that he was being credited everywhere as a legal advisor -and he's not. We should also take into acount that he is a journalist and broadcaster whose livelihood rely on telling a good story.
The case has been investigated at a very high level, both at the time and subsequently. But however you try to spin it, however many times it is inviestigated, at the end of the day you are left with the allegations of a girl of diminished mental capacity as retold by her Mother. There is no corroborating evidence.
Do you want a world in which you can find yourself in court - and if you are high profile - plastered all over the media on that basis? That is a dangerous precedent to set.
Given that there is never going to be any movement on the evidence available to prosecute - do you find it healthy that this girl and her Mother are being used and publicised to take shots at political opponenents?
If there was a smidgeon of a chance that a prosecution could ever take place, a missing witness perhaps, then I could understand, but there isn't and Robert Green knows that - it is cynical in my view, and a second abuse of the girl.

DaveP said...

Well Anna, can you answer why the other alleged abused were never interviewed by the police? Why were the alleged abusers also not interviewed? Of course Hollies claim cannot be corroborated. Without this simple corroboration there is no case.

Anna Raccoon said...


We don't know who else was spoken to by th police - we only know that no one else was charged. That is a different matter.

If the police are faced with an uncorroborated story by a witness who cannot give evidence in court, how far do you expect them to go?

This of course is precisely the reason why the mentally disabled are so attractive to paedophiles.

That is a disgusting fact of life which is not put right by demanding that anyone be cahrged on the basis of evidence that you would not want to face yurself - unless you are happy to see a world in which you could find yourself up in court of the word of someone who cannot give evidence under oath and there is no other witness?

The fact that these are politicians here and we all know they are all complete bastards and deserve locking up, should allow us to run roughshod over legal principles that we all rely on.

Nor to use a vulnerable young girl as bait in yet another conspiracy theory.

Marchamont Needham said...

Perhaps Robert Green is standing as a candidate to draw attention to this.

He strikes me as a very credible man. And the total lack of investigation by Grampian Police speaks volumes.

Anonymous said...

Personally I dont think there's any conspiracy here. Just plod and the state making their usual hash of stuff. The words Beer and Brewery come to mind.

Anonymous said...

I see both ICKE and ALEX JONES have both picked up on this.

Wow! Lizards and Area 51.

Shape-shifting chief constables ~ whateva next!

DaveP said...

Anna.. we have to assume that NO other potential victims were ever interviewed by the police This is the story that is out there, and the police have never contradicted this over the years. I absolutely agree that evidence has to be corroborated. The evidence here has not, but the police seemingly have not wanted to get it corroborated. This is the problem here; and of course it suggests cover up. It will have to be reinvestigated as I said earlier.

I have followed the case for a long time now and can see that the Crown Office are just stone walling it, but that is par for the course with them.

Anonymous said...

Anna.. we have to assume that NO other potential victims were ever interviewed by the police

Do WE?
We may never know...

Anonymous said...

My brain's been hijacked!
By demonic scots from the Coven of
Mongtard Loch.

Come on guys 'n' gals, the only one so far up for prosecution is Hollie's father. And the "evidence" on that is somewhat shonky.

No wonder it would get to court.

lilith said...

Move along, nothing to see here, just a touchy feely six year old (when the abuse started) Down's kid and her mad mother... we should all just drop it without corroborating any evidence, just like the Grampian Police.

A post based on no cross questioning just false or unreliable assumption - pot, kettle! said...

This still stinks of cover up mixed with state disinfo, too many lose ends, much like the Hodge affair and even the MRSA jabs where we were given a BBC state conclusion without any evidence - and a smear campaign against an honerable man, it's what the state do best with their media - smear and discredit using strawmen, one sided reports and false witness.

Anna Raccoon seems to have swallowed the bait and lead us directly to the state conclusion with out bearly any double checked facts or first hand accounts herself.

She appears to be doing everything she claims she is uncovering.

No wonder her posts are always shite - anna raccoon you should apply to communist purpose, they would love you.


Anonymous said...

@ Anon 15:13

For you the word "irony" means "like iron", doesn't it?

Anonymous said...

Come on... this Robert Green guy is an opportunist. This story is all he currently going for him.

Compromised politicians make the best NWO pets said...

Time for Tea said...
Theres a retard woman in her 20s who often gets on the local train. She's a complete and utter BASTARD!
She once accused the guard of verbally abusing her. Point was we were in the same seating area, and all he asked her for was her ticket!
She got on her mobile and must have phoned some fucka in Social Services. Police met the train and my wife and I came forward to assist the guard who was in a state of shock at being on the verge of arrest. This cow just made stuff up. She could give exact times and details of the "verbal assault". Point was, she was oblivious to us sitting behind her. We assisted the guard, and told police what had happened. Police eventually took her off and escorted her to a waiting lady officer - no doubt for some Tea and biscuits!

17 February 2010 14:57

What has this got to do with anything?

Plenty of people are bastards regardless of their ability, you appear to be playing Mr strawman in a crass attemt to discredit someone, for what reason?

If anyone is a bastard it is you.

Now run along you bastard.

As for sicko's in high office, How do you think the NWO get them to launch illegal wars?

It's called blackmail, goverment agencencies have used the method for years in the spying game, why would they not apply it when controlling politicians?

Why do you think their are a large number of deviants in high office?

It is no mistake, they are all on a NWO leash.

Only people they can destroy get to high office.

Obama a American citizen?


Long list of traitors with something in common - Get the picture?

Scottish MPs flood OHs blog to feed on Anna racoons vomit said...

McVicar said...
We all got abused ~ mainly by Robert Green and Co.

17 February 2010 16:15

Who the F*ck are you - A Scottish MP by chance?

Scottish MPs trying too hard to smear said...

Anonymous said...
Come on... this Robert Green guy is an opportunist. This story is all he currently going for him.

17 February 2010 18:07

You are clearly trying far too hard, don't you have some civil duties to do up their in Scotland rather than trying to cover your ass?

OH perhaps you should reveal the IP address of all these anti green comments, they seem to have come out of knowhere and don't appear to be from regular posters!

London or Scotland IP is where my money would go!

beware of the state blogger said...

lilith said...
Move along, nothing to see here, just a touchy feely six year old (when the abuse started) Down's kid and her mad mother... we should all just drop it without corroborating any evidence, just like the Grampian Police.

17 February 2010 17:53

Indeed, seems anna racoon is now communist purpose, probably always was, the state panicked when drudge took off and tried to subvert UK blogs in an attent at distraction and disinfo.

Guido has one such blog.

Guido claim Drudge is his hero yet Guido's blog covers nothing but trivia and distraction, unlike Drudge who covers the wider picture.

Beware of the state blogger.

Is anna such a blogger?

Who knows, but you can bet their are plenty that are, they don't spend billions on propaganda only to ignore the blogs.

Anonymous said...

Where's my tin foil hat?

Dr.Mabuse said...

Indeed, seems anna racoon is now communist purpose

Wot rot ~ this place gets worse.
Conspiracy nuts everywhere.

Dont forget to check under your bed guys!

Anonymous said...

lilith said... "Move along, nothing to see here, ..."

Spot on Lilith. It is a most strikingly incongruous pose that the author has chosen to adopt, is it not?

To move so swiftly to denounce angered readers as "tin foil hat" types smacks of neediness, perhaps even desperation.

John.B said...

Anna Raccoon makes a number of valid points.

Anonymous said...

@beware of the state blogger said...

too fucking right, mate.

there is only one link, association, correspondence or correlation which is almost impossible to conceal, and that it TIMING.

'tis not proof alone, but an awareness of who comes to who's aid, in what sequence and in response to what events is a most invaluable guide to where the less visible cords of treachery might bind one to another.

D said...

Anna says that we do not know who was spoken to by the police. Yes we do. Grampian police admitted in writing that in the first investigation they only interviewed Hollie and her father. It took them another 2 years just to interview her brother. On the follow up investigation by Grampian they failed to interview any of the 16 named abusers, or any of the 7 other child victims. This is not cock up, its cover up.

Maybe Anna has some valid points, but she has missed the crucial one.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
Where's my tin foil hat?

17 February 2010 18:26

Probably up your arse with your head, same place it was when people warned you about the EU and the same again when outr politicians waged illegal wars against the publics wishes, or when the BBC tried to cover up climate gate.

Get the picture?

If the trth is too much for you to bare don't take out you conditioned oppressive conformity on those that can think for themselfs!

In short, F*ck off sheep.

the shiteaters are massing said...

beware of the state blogger said... "Who knows, but you can bet their are plenty that are, they don't spend billions on propaganda only to ignore the blogs."

a rough outline of where the state blogger has insinuated himself/herself into what might loosly be termed the Libertarian end of the blogosphere has been apparent for quite some time.

"In short, F*ck off sheep."

Yes, exactly. The "tinfoil" argument is no argument at all and, coincidentally, or not, depending, keeps the very worst company (i.e. the Establishment).

Sinful Soul said...

Luke 8:16

“No one after lighting a lamp covers it with a jar or puts it under a bed, but puts it on a stand, so that those who enter may see the light.

Lets pour light on this and discover the truth....why not?

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
I see both ICKE and ALEX JONES have both picked up on this.

Wow! Lizards and Area 51.

Shape-shifting chief constables ~ whateva next!

17 February 2010 16:56

Strange how some people try and discredit things with pavlov dog style conformist twaddle.

I think David Ike did this himself, perhaps David Ike is their best weapon as it brings out the clowns to shout, tin foil hat at anyone who likes to dig below the propaganda and often reveal facts long before you are generally aware of them.

People who do not belive in the Man made global warming and who suggested it was a conspiracy by the banking elite and their royal backers were in fact proven correct, yet the conformists like their safe BBC world where the politicians will look after them and their interests.

Just as people did when Communism took over and fed the masses bullshit.

Their were many who tried to warn the prople and their were also many feeding the masses the state propaganda calling the others tin foil hat wearers that lead many of them to their deaths.

Ignore such twats, they will lead you onto the cattle carts.

Question everything, don't let the conformist sheep close your mind down as they have their own.

Fausty said...

Yes, I see I did misunderstand your assertion re: promiscuity. However, I don't believe we should let this one go. The increasing secrecy is eroding our civil liberties and letting the true guilty parties off the hook.

Hollie was assessed as being a truthful witness and she has not deviated from the points she has made. Therefore she would appear to be credible.

Apparently Tony Blair was investigated at a very high level. It doesn't therefore fill me with confidence that this case will be dealt with fairly. After all, you don't get levels much higher than Gordon Brown. Would you trust his judgement? I wouldn't.

This case needs to be investigated independently - independent of vested government interests. The courts used to fulfil that role. Sadly, we can't have much confidence in that still being the case.

Hollie and her mother seem very willing "to be used". How else are they going to get their story out to the wider public?

Fausty said...

PS: my last comment was in reply to Anna.

Cui bono? said...

Fausty said... PS: my last comment was in reply to Anna.

You're wasting your time either way by taking any of this (her) shit at face value.

Phil Free said...

"It is a sad fact of life that many girls with Down’s syndrome are both tactile and highly sexed"

I seriously mean it when I say I have not before come close to despising one single individual as much as I despise you from your comments. You have form for this too, so I know exactly where you are coming from. I used to find this blog mildly amusing and informative but you have become a one-man PR campaign against anything Libertarian. You are just hate-filled bigotted scum.

Do invite me to your next fancy dress outing, would love to meet you.

Rogerborg said...

The point, dearest Anna, is that libel is a civil matter, with specific statutes(*) and that the remedy is to file a civil suit after the libel is made.

Should I call up Plod, dear heart, and accuse you of being about to accuse me of being a kiddie fiddler? Would you be happy with being arrested, held in custody, having your effects seized, and then charged with a criminal offence, based on my accusation that you intended to libel you?

I think we all know that Plod would tell me to push off and talk to a lawyer. The difference here is that the State was challenged, and roused itself in its defence.

And that's what stinks about this. All else is trivia.

(*) We'll pretend for the sake of argument that statues are real laws, although of course we all know that they only apply to ships' cats.

Twisted Root said...

Back to bed now children and Aunty Anna will come and tuck you in and tell you it's not real.

Anna Raccoon said...


Holly was assessed as “a truthful witness to the best of her ability and an entirely innocent victim” the best of her ability that is as a person with Down's Syndrome.

She is the sole witness to the assault on herself. The medical evidence speaks to the fact of there having been an assault, not to who carried it out.

I am amazed that so many people are willing to let their distrust of politiicans overcome their revulsion at the idea that anybody should be on trial based on the uncorroborated word of someone who can only tell the truth 'to the best of their limited ability'.

If I gave you an example of a blogger having his internet connection taken away from him based on the uncorroborated word of a person with Down's Syndrome you would be screaming blue murder, you would be telling me that people with Down's Syndrome are eager to please, and can be persueded to do and say all sorts of things in order to please someone, why you might even give me examples of a girl who let her Father sexually abuse her for ten years.

If you bend the rule of law to allow you to attack the people you disaprove of - in this case lawyers and politicians, then it will still be bent when it is turned on you. I believe in the rule of law, it is the glue that holds society together albeit none too well, but unless we would prefer the rule of mob law and the lynching party it is all we have got at the moment.

The girl and her Mother are both vulnerable people in my eyes. It is not they who should be deciding whether it is right to 'use' them, but us, otherwise we are using the same arguemnt that is used by the paedophiles - 'she was willing to be used'.

No matter how many different police forces investigate this matter, no matter how many bloggers write about it, in the case of this girl, she is the only witness, you will still be stuck with that fact. So what good will it do her that she is named and shamed all over the blogosphere?

You may say that is a necessary side effect of ensuring that the guilty get their just desserts, and if that were possible, I would agree with you. Since it isn't possible, then I am more concerned with the effect on her than anything else.

Katabasis said...

(Cross posted at Anna's place and split here into several parts because there is a 4096 character limit)

thank you for a very useful counterpoint.

I have to explain however why I am still much more inclined to take this story seriously. I made a couple of comments to this effect over at OH's place and actually felt severe regret over making them for the reason that I've kept silent online (and only spoken to a handful of very close people offline) about this. I feel obliged however to explicitly outline my own experience in this area where so many people, who have a congenital aversion to anything remotely "conspiratorial", don't write Hollie's case and others like her off so easily. I hope you understand that this is very difficult for me to write about and brings up a lot of complex emotions and memories that I'd rather not have to deal with most of the time.

Hollie's story was so striking to me because it is so similar to my own family's experience. From what I can gather, what happened to Hollie also happened to my sister and mother at around the same time, except Hollie was in Scotland and we were in Essex.

My sister (one of) has two severe communicative and emotional impariments. I don't want to be too specific as I'm not sure how comfortable I feel at the moment with revealing too much identifying information. The problems started after she started going to a special day school that was in another, nearby, town.

As far as I know she was sexually abused repeatedly by several members of staff at the school over an extended period, which ended when my mother withdrew her from the school and refused any access to "social services". I remember that day because she was really worried about the safety of all of us (myself and my other sisters), so she stopped all of us from going to school that day, which also resulted in various calls and visits from "officials" wishing to allegedly check on our well being. I'm sure some of them were sincere genuine people. Some of them definitely weren't.

I was still pretty much a kid myself at the time - just reaching that difficult transitionary period of manhood between 16/17 . It was all very difficult for me as I was the man of the house and I remember my heart breaking when I was told that my - impaired - sister had asked if I "was going to be their new dad".

Katabasis said...

My mother made allegations of abuse against several staff. She also claimed that she herself had suffered serious physical abuse when she went to the school to confront them. I don't know how much of the latter was true; subsequent events made it seem much more likely. As I said, I was a confused teenager trying to take in as much as I could and feeling completely impotent about my ability to protect my sisters and mother as "the man of the house".

Anyway, with the allegations flying and my mother seeking legal recourse, things started to get very scary very fast. She subsequently also alleged that elements of the Essex police force were conspiring to protect the people involved; one of the accused was a JP (female). Again, I don't know how much of this was true, I still can't imagine the strain my mother was under, especially with what happened next. Its easy to be a bit more forgiving of people's occasional liberties with the truth when they are faced against what seems like an overwhelmingly powerful opponent.

The response was an attempt to institutionalise my mother. People, who refused to identify themselves, started phoning other family members and telling them that my mother had been diagnosed as being mentally ill and please could they help, for her own good and ours. Some of the family fell for it and my mother lost a major crutch as it split the adults in two. This fell flat however, they didn't succeed in institutionalising her and she continued making the allegations and seeking help wherever she could find it (which makes me wonder if the Hollie case is horribly complicated this way - Green might not be an upstanding individual as you suggest Anna, but she might also be all Hollie and mother have).

That's when the really nasty stuff happened.

Each thing could be explained away as horrible coincidence of course.

We used to keep rabbits. They all suddenly went missing. Then one weekend, about two weeks later, when my mum went to stay with some friends and my dad came over to look after us, I got up in the morning and went out into the garden. Our pets were back. They had had their heads removed and expertly stitched up, with little holes dug in the ground that they were stuffed into, with their back ends sticking out. The local vet cut one of the bodies open to find that parts of it had been cut out and the animal sewn back up again.

It was an amazingly skilled job - I remember pulling the big white rabbit out of the hole and spending a long time examining it, not being able to figure out where its head had gone and having trouble making sense of what I was holding - just a big lump of white furry flesh.

Katabasis said...

I went back inside to get my dad. This was the part when I actually got scared - my dad was visibly shaken. I'd never ever seen him like that before. And he told me that we had to lie to my sisters to protect them, to tell them that a fox had done this to the rabbits.

The next thing to happen - the most likely to be simple coincidence, but I include it here for completeness and the fact that it was so close to all the other events. I was badly beaten in some nightclub toilets by two men. There was no warning. They both shoved me into a toilet cubicle and beat me until some people came into the toilet and screamed at them to stop. By all accounts, then they walked calmly out of the nightclub. By complete chance I did catch up with one of them a few years ago at a late night coffee shop. I should have asked him some questions. Couldn't help myself though, I attacked him and then it turned into a full on brawl between my friends and his, and I never saw him again.

Around this time, a friend of the family, a local vicar, took up our cause. A few months later he was found dead, from a heart attack in his car. Again, he'd always had health problems so easy to explain away as horrible coincidence.

Also, one of the teachers at the school took our side and started corroborating my mothers story. He died in a car accident a few weeks later on the way back from the school. His wife tried - unsuccessfully - to pursue a case that his death was suspicious. The police wrote it off as an accident caused by something faulty with the car.

At this point my mother pretty much gave up and just focused on ensuring she could keep my sister safe from further harm, effectively becoming her full time carer, and I think she sent me to Sheffield to get away from it all.

And throughout the whole thing - looking back now - I realise just how I felt, as a kid, on the verge of becoming a young adult. I felt completely impotent and emasculated. It doesn't have to be a grand - wide reaching - conspiracy. All it takes for this kind of horror is a small group of well placed individuals, with power and influence at their disposal, who all cover eachothers' backs.

It still hurts me deeply now, I get very teary and emotional whenever I think of my sister and the hell she is trapped in between her conditions on one hand and the puke-inducing cruelty of a coterie of sub-human creatures on the other. Even though I'm fairly assured of my sister's safety now and have made friends with a lot of naughty people up this end, if this crap ever starts again, this time there will be blood, and lots of it.

So you, and especially some of the self-congratulatory posters responding to this story who "don't believe in conspiracy theories", will forgive me if I give the Hollie case a little more consideration.

Anonymous said...

I haven't time to trawl the entire thread to see if someone has alreadt asked what I'm thinkinh...

Is this thread anything to do with the one started by Holby the other day in which he too made the same allegations?

Shurely shome mishtake??

DaveP said...

Katabasis, just read your comment. its truly horrendous, and surely some commenters on here might feel shame for what they have said.

Phil Free..It was Anna who made those disgustingly inappropriate remarks about Downs girls, not OH.

I see Anna is still banging on about Hollies story not being corroborated. In the initial investigation only Hollies father was interviewed, (as well as Hollie), and TWO years later the police got around to interviewing her brother. None of the 16 named abusers or 7 other abused were interviewed then or in the more recent investigation. Of course Hollies story remains uncorroborated. Does Anna moonlight for the Scottish Crown Office? What fucking legal expertise does she have?

Time to go before Ron Broxted comes out of the pub and posts on here!

Anonymous said...

Anna, you raise some very salient facts.

Robert Green may or may not be an opportunist - I don't know enough about him - have never met him so I can't really make a call on that.

However, there seem to be some very disturbing aspects of this case:
the death of the girl's uncle
the contradictions about the date of the Lord Advocate's involvement in the case
the lack of interviews by Grampian Police

As Katabasis has written - there ARE large scale cover ups about child abuse - think Irish RC priests, think Margaret Hodge when she was Council Leader

While your eplanation of how/why the mother would have been sectioned sounds reasonable, have you read FTAC Watch's blog of his experience with Mental Health professionals?

If all the accusations are false why has no-one named sued? I would have if my name was on that list - wouldn't you?

This case needs to be re-investigated properly by someone both competent & ethical.

Until this is done - the jury is out.

Anna Raccoon said...

Phil Free 'Disgusting innapropriate remarks about Down's girls'.
I worked with Down's girls, and boys for many years. I am aware of the stark facts, if you are not, that is your uneducated problem.

Could you explain to me what is Libertarian about your desire to see prosecutions based on uncorroborated evidence from a witness whoo is only capable of being turthful to the best of her limited ability?

DaveP - You can interview the whole of Scotland if you want - you will still be left with the problem that it is the girl who must give evidence as to what occured in a room where only she and her father were present.

No I don't moonlight for the Scottish Crown Office, I am overqualified you might say.
Strangely enough, in precisely this area of law. Which might be why I get so riled at people talking out of their backsides about which they know nowt.

Anonymous said...

It was probably a darkie what done it. You know what they're like. So long as it's white, they'll stick it in. Fatties, grannies, mongos, they'll poke anything.

Old Holborn said...

Anyone who has seen Trainspotting will know that it's a fairly accurate portrayal of heroin addicted pyschotic youth in Scotland.

Anyone who has read Filth (by the same author) will know it is a fairly accurate portrayal of the Scottish Police

"Irvine Welsh has produced more than his share of revolting characters in his short yet spectacular writing career, but in the creation of Detective Sergeant Bruce Robertson he has surpassed himself. The protagonist of Filth is, both personally and professionally, utterly corrupt; a thief, drug user, misogynist and racist, with standards of appearance and personal hygiene that are simply beyond belief. It goes without saying that his wife and children have left him but, oddly, he still has few drinking mates, and even some of the women he so hideously abuses are still prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt. "The undeniable sexuality which is part and parcel of the complete dominance over another human being", opines the viciously selfish Robertson, is just part of what makes, "poliswork such a satisfying career.""

It reads like a documentary. And this case reads like the sequel.

DaveP said...

Anna, surely if 2 or more people confirmed that they had been abused by the same group of people this is corroboration. We are talking about a paedophile ring which allegedly had at least 16 abusers. We are not only talking about Hollies father.

Warsteiner said...

Do you know what? I was engrossed in the debate on this subject until anonymong @ 20.51 - please, if you can't contribute don't bother.

Anna Raccoon said...

Anonymous at 20.41

Yes, I have read FTACs blog, on many occasions, he is a frequent commentator at my place.

I pass no judgement on the reliability of FTACs sectioning or on the Mother in this case, I do not have sufficient facts to do so - however I would say that people who are happy to accept that sectioning them was the right thing to do at the time for their own health are as rare as men sitting in Waormwood Scrubs telling you that they had a full and fair trial and were banged up correctly. It does happen, but only occasionally.
You are aware that the case was reinvestigated in co-operation with Shropshire Police in their specialist unit, once the family had moved out of the Grampian area, are you?
I agree absoltuely that there is large scale child abuse, I have no idea why anyone should think I need convincing, I have been blogging about it long enough. I have an entire section on my blog devoted to it.
Believing it is not the problem. Evidence is the problem. The only evidence that can convict in this case, is that of the girl.

lilith said...

Anna, if all is as it should be in this case, can you explain to me why no other witnesses or alleged abusers were ever even questioned? Is that proper/standard legal procedure when someone with learning difficulties reports a crime? Are people free to abuse disabled children because the law does not value their testimony, even if only as a lead towards uncovering other witnesses/victims/perpetrators? Are abuses against disabled children always treated this way? With your experience I hope you can reassure me that this is not the case. Is the attitude "no case could be prosecuted so it is not worth investigating further" typical of people in the field? I am writing to my MP so I need the facts.

Old Holborn said...

Dear readers

Anna knows her onions and we spoke this morning before this was posted

I also like to stick my nose where it isn't wanted and create mischief as I see fit.

30 years ago, if you had suggested the Catholic church in Ireland was hiding peadophile priests, you could expect to lose your kneecaps. Yesterday, the Pope met the Bishops of Ireland and asked them politely to be more discreet when they rape thousands of children as the world didn't approve

30 years ago, no one questioned whether an MP could charge his wine cellar to his expense account. Last year, Heather Brooke was branded a nutter and an obsessive for trying to find out who was milking the system.

We don't need to shove. We just need to push.

I haven't become a Freeman on the Land because of the hairstyles. It is the first steps to completely removing myself from a rotten and corrupt society, to become invisible to my "masters" and to live my life unhindered by the actions of others.

If I can be a thorn in their sides until I vanish then my work is worthwhile.

But vanish I will. I have less need for them than their need for me.

Pretty Vacant said...

1. Who writes the StolenKids Hollie Blog? The tone of the author is unusually mocking.
2. Robert Green. An odd method of book publicity or electioneering.
3. Trial by Blog would reinforce the case for licensing.
4.Dunblane and Lord George Robertson.
5.Scotland against crooked Lawyers.

Take your pick.

Anna Raccoon said...

Pretty Vacant,

Some sucinct comments there Sir, I congratulate you.

I don't know who writes that blog, but I can tell you I have cosniderable experience of blogs and forums that discuss child abuse.

At least one of which was recently discovered to have a convicted paedophile as a moderator......

It of course, having never occured to anyone that a paedophile would wish to be around discussions of child abuse....

Ron Broxted said...

Why was Robert Green arrested? What has the Chief Constable of Grampian police been hiding in his right trouser pocket? Why is there never a pot of gold at the end of a Rainbow Store? Why is there a 38 double "DD" notice on this subject? Why can't I find a 'dream job' after thirty years of not really trying? But more importantly why does my web cam keep switching itself off when I am trying to display my rusty sheriffs badge to Boris in Moscow?

Chunky said...

Sorry OH, anyone but catholics it seems, already knew the 'Church' was full of shitbags, and that was hundreds of years ago.
The same can be said of politicians.
None are as blind as those that WILL not see, does not equate into conspiracy.

Anonymous said...

"Anna Racoon: I am amazed that so many people are willing to let their distrust of politiicans overcome their revulsion at the idea that anybody should be on trial based on the uncorroborated word of someone who can only tell the truth 'to the best of their limited ability'."

Then you are easily amazed by figments of your own imagination. Is there anyone here calling for a conviction to be brought in the manner you describe?

The vast majority of readers, unlike you, seemingly, do not believe for one second that the authorities have actually conducted a proper investigation into the treatment of the aforementioned young girl.

Your characterisation of the issue as one limited to whether someone should be convicted on the basis of uncorroborated evidence given by the young girl in question is your fantastical invention, Anna, and a stupid, ugly, blinkered, Establishment fellating one, at that.

SO17 said...

I got this loony bitch on my case at the moment.
Police,social services and mental health are all involved.
you know what?
The cunt is still walking the streets laughing.
I wouldn't mind but my dad is a fucking Mason.
Bang goes the consipracy.
It must be what I suspected in the first place.
Fucking useless incompetent public bodies that suit the third world shithole we live in.

Old Holborn said...


Before you start...

You are very, very priviledged. No other UK Blog will offer TWO oppossed arguments, both likely to be of interest to the law/solicitors/the 4 horseman of the apocolypse. At NO CHARGE. NO CENSORSHIP. NO MODERATION. NO ADVERTS. NO AGENDA.

Learn some fucking manners

lilith said...

I am sorry to hear that SO17. If you are lucky she may get banged up for 30 days in seven years time, that's if she breaches a restraining order several times.

Old Holborn said...

Lillith, I'm in court in March

I walked (yes walked) away from a marriage with the clothes I stood in. She became instantly rich.

Now, she wants more

Ron Broxted's Stalker said...

Holby. Not every case ends with justice being done but don't stop pushing. Even if there is no substance to the story,it does expose something odd in Grampian's reaction to this affair.

DaveP said...

I think Anna Raccoon should have studied this particular case more thoroughly before writing this kind of crap. Might have known she was a legal "professional" as shes so condescending.

SO17 said...

If a guy like me is getting nowhere with the authorities on an issue like mine what hope this Girls mum with hers.
I recognise however that this is where 40 years of debasing standards gets you.
A conspiracy of prolonged stupidity in a race to the bottom.

lilith said...

She wants more? Not more kids, surely OH ;-) Has she gone up another clothes size and now needs an entire bolt of cloth to fashion a mini skirt? Has the security guard been made redundant?

We're in court next month too! You gotta do what you gotta do :-)

Technomist said...

Thanks for that - a good post. I watched some you tube footage about this and started to get the same sinking feeling about Mr Green and the standards of prrof applicable to uncorroboratable aspects of the evidence in this kind of case which you have had.

Anonymous said...


Yeah, well, fair point; mosly.

It is an unwelcome sight to see an accredited author take official pronouncments as fact and interpret doubts and suspicions with an unwavering Establishment bias.

The Establishment doesn't need our help; if anything it'd benefit from being liabled and slandered at every possible opportunity.

If this is a Devil's Advocate kind of piece, at least say so, or be prepared to take the crossfire that goes with it.

Jess The Dog said...

I was going to post on this issue on my own blog, but was unsure of the 'other side' of the story and Mr Green's credentials. Anna Raccoon has provided a useful alternative perspective. After all, the State is keen to view all of us with arbitrary suspicion regardless of evidence.

Ditch the tinfoil hat stuff. No Dunblane or Ore D-notices. That is fiction. Most Dunblane stuff has been released (I agree there was a cover-up but it was Central Scotland police incompetence). Most people find abuse utterly abhorrent and would reject participation in a wide-ranging cover-up no matter what inducement or co-ercion. Some historic abuse cases are prosecuted, and in some cases there is insufficient evidence or corroboration and they are not pursued. There are ea few 'Walter Mitty' types who hang around abuse cases and allegations to cause suspicion. Interdicts and injunctions carry criminal penalties for breaches, although the blogosphere is redressing the balance between privacy and cover-up....especially OH's bastion of free speech and thought.

However, there is enough to justify an inquiry. The girl was paid criminal compensation which indicates a 'balance of probability' and the accused include those working (or having worked) within the justice system, with the additional allegation of cover-up or failure to investigate. Whether they like it or not, this is now out there and an investigation or inquiry is in the public interest.

Anonymous said...

I think Anna Raccoon needs to make sure she's not being had.

h said...

raccoon's made some good points and argued them cleverly, but the fact that there is not (currently) enough evidence to make a prosecution, and that a journalist might be using this case to publicize his own campaign, does not mean that discussion of the case, including the names of alleged abusers, should be supressed. moreover, it is the seriousness of the crime which dictates that the matter be properly investigated (which it clearly has not been), and it is the public status of the accused which demands a fully transparent and public investigation - this being part of the flipside-territory of being a public figure or politician. incidentally, far from being used, it appears, from the reports which i have read, that hollie's mother is the prime motivator of this campaign, and that the journalist, mr green, is only standing for election in order to turn a spotlight on the derailment of justice - an arrogant act of procedural sabotage by means of politically-motivated censorship which has ultimately forced the otherwise impotent citizen (who would, were the roles reversed, never have been granted the same d-list luxury) to name and shame. in truth, even if there were never enough evidence to prosecute this case, freedom of speech is essential as an emotional safety-valve for the victims, and as an airbag against the possibility of unconvicted paedophiles re-offending. the risk of immoral summary-justice being executed by hysterical hooligans does not negate the value of freedom of speech being exercized in the cause of truth - that would be to allow a possible negative to outbid a probable positive. again, congratulations to you, mr holborn, with a grudging commendation for crud-poking to your alter ego, raccoon.

Alex Ferguson said...

Would anybody with a legal standing steam in like Old Holborn?
Other than that,well said.

Anonymous said...

"Ditch the tinfoil hat stuff. No Dunblane or Ore D-notices."

Are there, or are there not, orders in place to block the reporting of this latest case in the MSM? If there are, what type of orders are in place?

"Most people find abuse utterly abhorrent and would reject participation in a wide-ranging cover-up no matter what inducement or co-ercion."

So what. The 'networks' that are involved in that kind of thing are, by definition, composed of those who will knowingly go along with it, yes? As for a general Establishment led, after-the-fact cover up, take your pick from recent history, it's what they do.

"The girl was paid criminal compensation which indicates a 'balance of probability' ..."

Couldn't that just have been on the basis of a medical examination? The point being that compensation could be awarded without any reference at all to those who happened to stand accused or without anyone accused at all (not a bad idea, in principle)

" investigation or inquiry is in the public interest."

Yup, no argument here.

Given the choice, though, I'll side with those who have the least power, those who do not have every advantage, those who cannot assume, with no more than a nod and a wink, to be given the benefit of the doubt, when it comes down to brass tacks.

Actually, where are the young girl and her mother. What's the latest on that?

Anonymous said...

Two striking impressions I have about this that I have are that Robert Green comes across as a slightly "Walter Mittyish" speaker in his videos. Another is that the StolenKids-Hollie blog is written in Hollies person. Not that it is being hidden or anything but it is very inappropriate. Although I have my doubts I still think that the questions that most need answering are stacked up on the side of and need answering by Grampian police, Sheriff Buchanon et al.

Ken of the family Kettle said...

Well surely this has to be the most commented article on this blog ever? > 100

I'm doing my best to try and keep an open mind on the matters raised here and in the resulting comments.

However, with my somewhat limited knowledge on the subject, may I state the following:

(a) I think that family courts in all parts of the EU regions 1-9 (ex-UK as of 1st De 2009 the United Kingdom ceased to be a sovereign state) should be not held in secret and involve a jury of 12.

(b) All financial incentives for forced adoptions must be removed ASAP. The fact that such incentives exist means children are stolen and sold in the UK. In some parts of the world this is more commonly referred to as child slavery.

(c) All Fixated Threat Assessment Centre (FTACs) established (2006) must be abolished. FTAC can imprison anyone permanently with no rights whatsoever, no access to courts, and no outside communication, with psychiatric reasons as the excuse. It uses electric shock, sensory deprivation, forced injections of drugs, and other torture techniques as "cures." It's the perfect soviet method of dealing dissidents.

These are have, are and now being used against Freemen.

p.s. I do wonder why since OH is a Freeman now, then why is he planning on attending a UK court regarding requests/wants by his ex-wife? Sorry someone help me out on this one. Perhaps I'm just thick and cannot understand why.

obama - the witch messiah said...

yeah man, politics, power, and the pumped-up pleasure of paedophiliac perversions. one of the bonuses, or (as my better-half likes to term them) perks, of the ongoing 'operation wog', in helmand province, not-nigger-enough-land, is that my mrs and i get a constant supply of unbaptized afghan babies' heads for our personal sexual gratification. on observing me force-feed my huge black dick between the tenderly expectant lips of the little islamofascist fuckbrains, michelle enjoys cradling a cutely decapitated chubby face to her maternal tit whilst sneaking her hot horny hand down into her palpitating panties to reverently rub 'n rustle her reverberating rills with a touch of vintage vaginal vibrato. it doesn't take long before i heroically explode in the mute infant's dewy-moist mouth like a heaven-sent heraldic white dream...and the frisky first lady struggles valiantly and virtuousically to reach down to tap the terrific tenor of a manicly moany morgasm which triggers her to blurt out a deeply-disgusting and sloppily-satisfying wet fart - well perhaps that last audio-anal part was a bit too much information...

Anonymous said...

"h said... raccoon's made some good points and argued them cleverly, ..."

you mean: argued the official line with a little more articulation than officialdom might otherwise have done themselves; stooped so low as to bake in the tiresome, preemptive ad hominem of "tin foil hat reader"; and rounded the whole thing off with some in-comments Straw Man action, along the lines of "this is your argument, and i refute it, even though, on reflection, it isn't really."

dreadfully grim, formulaic nonsense, from an otherwise worthwhile author, who's motives, in this instances, are more than questionable.

h said...


all that glitters is not sold said...


formulaic nonsense

what do you expect from someone who defends the freedom of a porny political paedo? immortal emotive poetry? get real. there's no question of any questionability - the author is promoting evil.

the impimpressario said...

come one, old ho - can't we discuss somethink important like the resuscitation of the hackney empire?

my suggestions (for what they're worth):

a) transfer to private ownership - obviously

b) fund ongoing 'commoonity' projects by selling griff rhys jones into slavery

c) get bums on seats by hiring jocelyn jee esien as a go-go dancer


the stalking times said...


my computer is now being bombarded by a continual stream of trojans. the sneaky little word-policeperson around the corner has warned me that i am in 'big trouble' - don't know whether she's met, murdoch, messagespace or michelle obama. really, it doesn't matter whether i'm the lowest piece of shit in the world - if you eavesdrop and carry out illegal surveillance on me 24 hours-a-day, then insult me via spam-mail, you are certainly no better. guido fawkes is a commercial scam by which a small inner-circle of authors make money out of a larger pool of unpaid talent - beware. the old holborn blog is an admirable organ of free-speech, but shares writers with guido fawkes and is therefore probably part of a ploy to create a fake blog-war aimed at increasing hits on paul staines' blog. the guido fawkes manipulation and surveillance team of private investigators combined with the guido fawkes scam is a disgrace on the scale of the totalitarian government which it claims to criticize.

the communerd said...


i hear there's a dastardly plot to overthrow the hackney empire and create the hackney commune of 2010. apparently it's a one-size-fits-all revolution to usurp a one-size-fits-all state and is being stage-managed by actors 'n actresses (ain't it always). be careful guys - this kind of lark usually ends in tears because the replacement is as authoritarian as the original. if you want true freedom, sort it out for yourself. didactic politico-theological movements do not cater for the individual, yet freedom is individual and everyone has to cut their own unique key.

pc fuckoff said...


'ello, ' that cunt staines into financial fraud?

Phil Free said...

"I am amazed that so many people are willing to let their distrust of politiicans overcome their revulsion at the idea that anybody should be on trial based on the uncorroborated word of someone who can only tell the truth 'to the best of their limited ability' "

So if this was a non Down's Syndrome child making the sane allegations, would you be making the same point? Surely by your logic, anyone with limited ability, such as a child, should not be trusted as a witness or victim in any criminal case?

"I worked with Down's girls, and boys for many years. I am aware of the stark facts, if you are not, that is your uneducated problem"

Bullshit. If you had also worked with non-Down's girls and boys you would know they too are somewhat sexualised too. The point is it is up to responsible adults to not be tempted to repeatedly stick their penises in them. Your comment smacks of "they are asking for it" THAT is what I found so repugnant (including OHs mindless repeating of it). Aside from that, I have a close female relation with Downs and attend many events and groups with her regularly. Shagging, frankly, doesn't come up, ever, at those events, even though there are many Down's girls and boys there.. So you can cut out the patronising bollocks "I've worked with downs people, yadda yadda yadda". You are full of it.

The fact is, a girl was repeatedly raped (the medical evidence confirms this) and nothing has been done about it, except for a statutory 13k payout. It's a fucking disgrace that Anna and OH, otherwise respected bloggers, are playing their small part in the cover-up of it. Oh I forgot, all Down's children want to do is fuck. Oh yeah. The pair of you are scum.

Why is Robert Green facing criminal charges in what is clearly a civil matter? Why wouldn't Grampian Police answer telephone queries on his welfare, when when tested were happy to for other people in custody?

Any Colour but Brown said...

Your blog, though, is doing the exact opposite of Green - your are acting as an apologist for those that abused Hollie. Worse still, you are defaming a young girl and her ability to recognise real from imagined.
"following evidence from a Grampain [your error, not mine] detective inspector who described Hollie as “a truthful witness to the best of her ability and an entirely innocent victim”. "
It is normal for witnesses to give evidence "to the best of their ability". You do not know the girl, personally, but, yet, you have the apparent ability to diagnose that she is unable to give reliable evidence.
"So, we have a vulnerable mentally disabled girl". Do you know, for a fact, that she is "mentally disabled" or are you making uncorroborated and unreliable assertions - the very same things that you accuse Green of?

"I don’t intend to name the young woman "
"...who described Hollie as...."

Yeah, right.

Sorry, but this comes across as the same kind of damage limitation that we get from Alistair Campbell and Lord Mandlebum, all the time. You are no better than Green.

Anna Raccoon said...

Phil Free,
It is you who have taken my comment that Down's children are disproportionatey represented amongst the sexually abused to be an example of 'they were asking for it'.
Down’s children can have high or low sex drives, as with any other child, however….
Down’s children are exceptionally tactile, they like to touch you, pat your arm, hold your hand, in a way that other children may be too reserved or shy to do.
They like to smile and make those around them smile, they are exceptionally eager to please.
They display less inhibitions regarding their own bodies and may openly engage in behaviour that is viewed as sexual by observers where another child might be more secretive.
There are men who are happy to take these outward signs as an indication that the advances they have made towards ‘this’ child, as opposed to another child, are welcomed and that therefore it is quite acceptable to use them as a sexual plaything.
What I said was that Down’s children were disproportionately represented amongst sexually abused children, I did not offer any apologies whatsoever for the scum that do this.
Understanding what it is about Down’s children which makes them so vulnerable to abuse is not apologising for that abuse.
Understanding what it is about Down’s children which makes it so difficult for them to give evidence is not apologising for that abuse.
I do not forget that this girl was repeatedly abused. I rage with anger over it.
The fact that I don’t want to see her further abused by being paraded around conference halls, discussed, identified, picked apart on internet forums, yes, and even drooled over in some quarters, make no mistake, when I recognise the limitations of the law in offering justice to her, is not an apology for the scum that did this, it is a recognition that she is highly vulnerable, that even her own Mother choses to follow her own inclinations rather than giving her daughter the privacy that she deserves.
I recognise that the law as it stands cannot give her justice. I don’t think that situation is improved by making her some sort of poster girl for a campaign.
You can rant and rail all you want, have a full public inquiry, pore over every last detail, arrest half of Scotland, fill an entire forest full of newspapers with her picture, and at the end of the day, you will still be faced with the problem of putting her in the witness stand, where she will not be the reliable and credible witness that our justice system demands. Truthful, yes, but to the best of her cognitive ability.
You will not secure a conviction. What good will you have done her?
Meanwhile, behind furtive computer screens, up and down the land, pathetic inadequate men who dream of the chance to force themselves on a willing smiling child who will not know how to complain, will have been drooling over her image and murmuring her name. Who will protect her then, when the entire world of paedophilia knows her name, recognises her in the street, knows which town she lives in?
If it makes you happy to applaud the antics of the would-be politician who has done this, then you are sicker than I thought.

Come back to me with a sensible suggestion as to how corroborating evidence might be secured from a witness who had limited ability, explain to me how you would change the law in future to make it possible to ensure that the scum who did this can be prosecuted, without changing the law in such a way that anyone can be prosecuted on uncorroborated evidence from someone of limited ability in any criminal case, and we can debate. I will support you all the way.
Just don't ask me to abuse a vulnerable girl to help you do it.

Anonymous said...

Anyone who has seen Trainspotting will know that it's a fairly accurate portrayal of heroin addicted pyschotic youth in Scotland.

How? How will they know? Given that Welsh himself has regularly said that it was an exaggerated vision of his own heroin-bingeing youth and that it was pretty much out-of-date by the mid-1990s, how exactly will people know that it's a "fairly accurate portrayal"? How do you know, OH? What awesome research have you done to ratify Welsh's fiction?

I thought the only people who used Welsh as social commentary were the chattering classes of Edinburgh.

You're an ill-informed twat, OH, and you need to learn to spell. Oh, and drop this "freeman of the land" shite. It's gone beyond embarrassing.

Look Behind You! said...

With refernce to the Fixated Threat Assessment Centre above. You may be surprised to learn that there are some very crazy people out there. Several of them write on here. Its usually those who write reams of stuff and use CAPITAL LETTERS for no reason a sane mind would.
I have investigated one of these nutters while I was looking after someone a bit important. They literally live in fairy land, again like some of the bloggers here, some of the stuff these people wrote would make me laugh like a drain. They would use every bit of space on any paper they could find, including torn up beer mats and toilet paper and sometimes writing so small to fit everything on, you needed a magnifying glass to read it.
The scary thing was that there were so many of them, obviously different authors. That was of course before the tinterweb.
Looking on here, I rest my case.

Jess The Dog said...

Repeat after me....

..There is no D-notice on Dunblane, Ore or this.

..There was a 100-year order on Dunblane, mostly lifted.

..There might have been an injunction on Ore but that is unlikely as details leaked anyway.

..There is an interdict relating to this case as OH has revealed, but this is no surprise and interdicts are far from uncommon (they even occasionally frighten bloggers).

..Mr Green has probably been arrested for the criminal charge of contempt of court for breaching the interdict.

Anywya, there is a case for a public inquiry given the fact this is out there, and the public interest in an accusation (with some weight) against the judiciary and police.

Anna Racoon`s Authoritarian-Submissive Personality said...

A lot of this is being taken on trust so far. Trust that Robert Green is being straight with us that Grampian police have failed to interview the claimed abusers and victims named by Hollie. Green has also said that Angolini`s law firm, Levy & Mcrae, has told every scottish newspaper not to mention her involvement with Hollie`s case.

I want answers and until they start to turn up, my sympathies are going to be with Hollie and her mother, not banana republic Scottish establishment lawyers and police.

Newgates Knocker said...

The mother may not have wanted her daughter paraded all over the internet, but at least now neither she nor her daughter can disappear into "the system" without people asking questions!
Spot on with why Downs children are easy to abuse though Anna. Also some of these vulnerable children can get more than ten different people (some of very low calibre) attending their intimate needs in the course of one day ( shift changes in state run respite etc) They can lose any sense of who should touch them and why.

UK Resistance said...

Anna, have you developed the cranial capacity to realise that, this being an alleged paedophile ring, that the other victims were actually taken into this ring of abuse by their own parents/guardians, and thus these other parents would not wish for there to be a proper or thorough police investigation as this would incriminate them?

We have two possible reasons that the other "victims" have not come forward.

1. their own parents/guardians are involved
2. the police themselves are involved.

Who knows what pressures these other child victims have been put under to keep quiet? Family pets killed and told that they are next?

No, we may not have enough evidence here for a trial, yet, but that is the point, We have not got the evidence, but the Police have and they have done nothing with it!

The police have not investigated these cases so the evidence has not been brought forward.

DaveP said...

UK Resistance I too have pointed out the lack of evidence gathering, and investigation, but Anna's silence on this is deafening.

Anonymous said...

Of course. Mr Green's recent arrest will no doubt add another exciting chapter to an otherwise boring story of conspiracy theorums.

Lord Greystoke said...

Poliical ambitions et al

Perhaps a case of vote GREEN get Brown?

Colin (the Cunt) Berry said...

Broxted is a wanker Broxted is a wanker Broxted is a wanker Broxted is a wanker. 11-1.

sociopath racoon knows better than the child's mother said...

the child knows what happened and who was involved. the child communicated the details to the mother. the mother knows the child. the mother knows what's in the best interests of the child, the mother knows how emotionally robust the child is, and will protect the child from any unwanted attention etc. if indeed this attention were to arise, which is unlikely given the circumstances. my god hollie is obviously downs, so what kind of people would take advantage of her and rape her, or anyone else for that matter? politicians and police probably. hollie's mother, hollie and just about every decent citizen in the country want the rapists' nuts cut off, but racoon wants to suck them. evil nazi cow. burn the legally-afflicted witch on a pyre of eu human rights legislation.

spark up (if it wasn't fucking obvious)

Anonymous said...

"Of course. Mr Green's recent arrest will no doubt add another exciting chapter to an otherwise boring story of conspiracy theorums."

theorems, mate; and you think the conspiracy angle, minus Mr Green's contribution, is "boring"?

there is a particular type of "low rent" blogger who, on achieving a certainly level of recognition for their efforts, finds it almost impossible to concede the slightest error or mistake in their increasingly flagrant conceit. most high-profile bloggers fall prey to this disorder, a few, the best, do not.

raccoon stew said...

yeah and...paedos are always going to find some innocent picture to wank over and frankly maybe that's a good thing, let them get on with it - but if they come near the kids they've gotta know they're gonna get it hard from the rest of society. raccoon wants to encourage paedos to rape kids. end of. fucking warped bitch.

not an obama-supporter said...


god, that obama's a cunt, eh? killing babies to get his sick rocks off. fucking disgusting, and the wife too.

Glosman said...

Well done Anna - for a very informative piece.

Rogerborg said...

I note that you didn't address my point that this is not about trying the beak and plod, it's about the State criminalising a civil matter (libel) in order to protect one of its apparatchiks.

Perhaps your alleged specialist skills are blinding you to the real significance of events here. Or perhaps you're just a bit thick.

Colin Berry said...

Ron Broxted if I promise to kick the old sow Janet into touch will you run away with me? Please..please say you will, I am sure it's more than me just being bi-curious, I just can't get you out my head since that moment in the hotel toilets at the Telegraph evening. Janet doesn't suspect a thing. Any chance of coming to Gib if I can get her to fuck off for a couple of days?
Please say you will try froggy woggy X X X

anne caprone said...


fuck, there's always one boring cunt wants to get you on a technicality

Mind Cuntrol said...

How 2 make a military strength tin foil hat:

Remember this is military grade...

Anonymous said...

There is more to this than meets the eye I have a friend who was sexually abused at 7 by her cousin,here father and the boys father were masons and it was all forgotten about.

There are also links to Thomas Hamilton,a case which has now been locked away for 100 years.

The fact that Green was arrested on a breach of the peace by the Abreedeen sheep shagger squad for THREE days should set alarm bells ringing

Abredeen is the murder capital of the north of Scotland and everyweeking drunken drugged up loons get out after 10 minutes and he gets 3 days for bop

If he was wrong they had enough legal weight to sue himback to the bronze age.

This case stinks like a nuns nanny


Anonymous said...

Firstly (and most importantly) how dare you desecrate the memory of V for Vendetta by stealing the V mask to front up your crock of steaming fascist-leaning shit?

As for your "CCTV, Police State, wheelie bin Stasi, DNA, WMD, "Social Cohesion" rant - you may as well add "no laws", since that would be the inevitable outcome of what you are suggesting.

And no laws of course, means anarchy - the opposite of fascism/totalitarianism...

So which is it - make your fucking minds up, tossers. Or are you even aware that there's a difference?

Well, that's my rant - I thank you, and have a nice day!

Anonymous said...


JUNE 2ND 2010

As of the June 1st 2010, Greg Lance-Watkins has announced on his "unofficial site" that he is communicating with the following names set out below. Those named have already been proven to be connected to Hollie’s case of sexual abuse and are determined to gag Hollie’s army and suppress the substantial evidence that has been obtained by various experts.

Shropshire County Council:

Adult Social Care Tel: 0345 678 9005

The Chief Executive Officer Tel: 01743 252826


The Courts of Protection

Sherriff Buchanan

Mrs Elish Angolini


Daniel Foggo Tel: 0207 782 5000).

Downs Syndrome Associates various

For legal reasons that cannot be disclosed, it has come to our attention that there is documentation that Shropshire County Council Social Care has been touch with Greg Lance Watkins. Why would they do that? Why not go to or any other 500 sites in the UK alone. Because they are working in tandem.

Greg Lance Watkins currently resides at




NP16 5ET

TEL: 01291 626562

Intelligence received indicates Mr Watkins’ is operating on a website whose server is restricted to a Government Secure Infrastructure. We have been advised of another professional, also a British operative living in France working in concert with him under a nome de plume of Anna Racoon, a retired lawyer attached to the British establishment… more on this at a later date.

According to Anna Racoon, Mark Daly of BBC Scotland has asked Grampian Police for and received the autopsy report for Roy Greig (Anne Greig’s brother, Hollie’s mum). This document was withheld from Anne Greig (next of kin) for 12 years by the authorities in Scotland, on the grounds of breaching confidentiality. Therefore a breach of confidentiality was hardly justifiable, furthermore it is being used to pervert the course of justice.

I Robert Green telephoned Mark Daly today June 1st at approximately 13:50 hours. I asked Mr Daly if the above statement was true? Mr Daly denied that he had asked for or received such a document. Question: Why did he make comments on Manchester Radio about an autopsy report he had never clapped eyes on and had no part in the BBC’s investigation that was terminated on June 10 2009.

For all those interested to know the true facts about Hollie’s 16 year abuse, you can go to the official website

More details will be revealed on July 1st 2010.

Robert Green and Team

Note Anna Racoon is now supporting GLW the very man who named the parties and who now is trying to derail Hollies campaign.In addition on her FB page Racoon has links to ukip,the very people who threw GLW out.

Forgive me but what is going on?

As for Hollie and Anne I dont know what happened ,I wasnt there,but the Scottish Government seem to be going to extraordinary lengths to silence an old bloke with some leaflets on what seems to be a civil matter and not a matter of state.

Anonymous said...


By the way Miss Racoon I am STILL waiting to hear who gave you my nr I post here because you closed your page on this after heavily MODERATING the truth

Old Holburn I donated to you because I believe in free speech does Anna?

Anonymous said...

I have found out who it was.

However Ms Racoon lied at least twice how she got it and threatened ME with her old enemy the cops, the cops despite her phoning ME from France

Is France not in the heart of the eu she hates?

She also heavily moderated her blog,free speech,take it and shove it up your Durdoyne

I would watch her mate,

Anonymous said...


Anonymous said...


Anonymous said...

Anna R lives in France and couldnt give a fuck

Anonymous said...

Pretty Vacant,

Some sucinct comments there Sir, I congratulate you.

I don't know who writes that blog, but I can tell you I have cosniderable experience of blogs and forums that discuss child abuse.

At least one of which was recently discovered to have a convicted paedophile as a moderator......

It of course, having never occured to anyone that a paedophile would wish to be around discussions of child

ha ha ha aye right

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