Thursday, 12 November 2009

Value For Money?

"Bullets? We Won't Need ANY Bullets!"

The penpushers and REMF's at the MOD have trousered an astonishing £300 MILLION in bonuses whilst the squaddies and other service personnel have been being blown to pieces in Afghanistan, where Doctor John Reid sent them ( at Bliar's behest) without any equipment (because of McCavity's cuts) because they would not have to even fire a rifle. Even if it worked.

That's about £1.5 MILLION per dead service person.

I do hope they are fucking proud of themselves.

The Penguin

Fuck Me Rigid, that absolute wanker Postman Prat has declared that the penpushers deserve bonuses because they face the same risks as frontline troops. How many clerical officers have been repatriated via Wootton Bassett? Fuckwit!


Nick Clegg said...

This leads me to question whether British trrops should be withdrawn from Afghanistan.
I believe that they should be

Get Smart said...

Have we all forgotten that Reid is also involved in kick backs...

Former Defence Secretary John Reid has secured a £50,000 job with a private security company operating in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Dr Reid, who famously boasted in 2006 that he expected British forces being sent into Helmand would leave again ‘without a shot being fired’, is to be a consultant to G4S Security Services.
The company provides armed security guards to British Government employees stationed in war-torn countries.

Don't also forget his word.."will leave without a shot been fired"

Anonymous said...

Right, I am really FUCKING ANGRY about this!

Those weasle nosed, arse bandits need a fucking good kicking and then dress them up as pigs and drop them on the front lines in Afghanistan.. Cunts!

Joe Public said...

If Postman Prat declared the penpushers deserve bonuses because they face the same risks as frontline troops, and, none have them have yet been returned, casketized, then their obvious skills should be shared with our squaddies.

The Paragnostic said...

300 million quid could have paid for the correct avionics package to be fitted to the Chinooks sat at Odiham, or speeded up the work on changing the blades on the Merlins so that they can operate at altitude in Afghanistan.

Maybe the penpushing scum think that feathering their own nests is more important than medevac helicopters - I beg to differ.

Anonymous said...

This comment from politicalbetting sheds a bit more light on this:

Firstly, the bonus structure was imposed on the MoD by the treasury as a cost saving measure.

If you read the BBC article, it makes it clear the bonuses come out of the salary pot not any other budget - however bonuses do not count when it comes to calculating pensions, redundancy payoffs, etc.

The bonus may have a high profile and be bad politics (but then, three guesses as to who was running the Treasury when they were brought in…) but they are cheaper in the long run than paying out the same money as salary increases would be.

You may think that MoD civil servants should all work cheap or for free for the sheer privilege of doing the job, but believe it or not they have to feed their families too.

Secondly, the equipment budget and the salary budget are not the same. If the bonus pot was cut the money wouldn’t go to equipment, it would go back to the Treasury. I’ve no idea what it would get spent on there, but I doubt it would be body armour.

Thirdly, if you really want to get angry at waste, there are so many better targets in the MOD (why are we spending cica. £90M each on Typhoons when the Israelis bought the latest model F-15 for less than £4M each? Typhoon may be better - though I wouldn’t bet too much on it - but it’s not 20x better). But this is squarely down to politicians - of all parties - treating the defence budget as mainly a means of providing a de facto subsidy to British industry (though they call it “protecting jobs”) and only secondarily at best as a means of equipping the armed forces.

The Paragnostic said...

"You may think that MoD civil servants should all work cheap or for free for the sheer privilege of doing the job, but believe it or not they have to feed their families too."

And the squaddies don't? Bet you the civil servants don't have to get by on a private's wages, and they want a bonus for filing in alphabetical order or whatever the seat polishing wankers do all day?

Think I'll go to ARRSE for my info rather than reading astroturf garbage like that.

Anonymous said...

The Paragnostic: Think I'll go to ARRSE for my info rather than reading astroturf garbage like that.

Er...this taken straight from ARRSE and there's other comments saying the same:

There is a bonus system purely because they cannot afford to pay pensions; by not being part of salary it does not accrue towards pensionable pay.

The Paragnostic said...

Yep - just been to ARRSE and there are a hell of a lot of similar comments, mostly from MOD CS staff.

The reasons for the bonus system are immaterial IMO - this is money that could have been used for frontline purposes, but has instead been paid to clerks in the vastly overmanned bureaucracy.

I'll make sure to ask some of the lads in the pub who have just returned from Afghanistan what they think of it - somehow I don't think they'll have a lot of sympathy for the penpushers' point of view.

Ampers said...

I think that everyone who has benefited by these bonuses should be kitted out in standard gear and shipped to Afghanistan to fight, for a six month tour in the front line, but to enable them to have a chance to survive, I think they should have two days military foot drill training first.

Old Slaughter said...

From the Times article.

"There are 85,000 civil servants at the MoD — one for every two active soldiers, the highest level among the Allied nations — and about 50,000 will get a performance bonus this year."

So we have 170,000 active soldiers?

Er... No we don't. Can somebody explain what that stat is meant to mean?

Anonymous said...

@The Paragnostic

Firstly: you miss the point of my original post that it was a criticism of Brown and his notorious sleight of the hand tactics evident in all of his budgets.

Secondly: I was making the point that the bonuses were no such thing at all, but instead a cost saving exercise and merely part of their salary. This in no way negates the fact that soldiers should be paid more and better equipped – a point I completely agree with

Thirdly: You’ve clearly never run an organisation or a business otherwise you would understand the reality of budgets, departments working together (or more usually not) and the need for penpushers, without whom nothing would work.

Fourthly: I agree there’s case for reducing ‘penpushers’ in the MoD but the ones that are necessary still require paying. If you don’t agree with that point Paragnostic, then I look forward to proof that you have volunteered to work as a MoD ‘penpusher’ for nothing.

I won’t hold my breath

SO17 said...

Old slaughter.
Could be the combined numbers of servicemen from all three branches of the armed forces.

During the Vietnam war the Americans coined a term 'Tooth to Tail' in reference to the ratio of frontline troops to support.
It does sound like our tooth to tail animal would look like one of those fuck off dinosaurs with a fat body and a bloody long tail plus a massive arsehole called Bob.

Anonymous said...

Predictably there was no mention of this story on the BBC World at One news today.

Anonymous said...

I've just been doing some decorating and fucked it up. Splashed paint every where. Where can I claim my bonus?

Anonymous said...

I've just been doing some decorating and fucked it up. Splashed paint every where. Where can I claim my bonus?

Anonymous said...


"Bet you the civil servants don't have to get by on a private's wages"

A private soldier starts on £16,681. A MoD admin grade - the majority of the staff - starts on a monstrous £12,694. The lowest MoD CS grades, at the end of their fixed four-year pay deal, had to have an emergency salary increase - not to finance their champagne consumption, but to keep them from falling below the legal minimum wage. Yes, those civil servants are really living the high life, aren't they?

Go higher, and the divide opens further. There's a concept called "equivalent rank" whose main relevance is "who can sign for what" - as a rough rule of thumb, the civilian earns about half what their "equivalent" military officer does. This being right and proper - the military job description includes compulsory holidays in charming spots like Majar al-Kabir or Musa Qala - but it's usually missed or deliberately ignored by those leaping aboard the outrage bus.

As to why do we have so many CS... well, at one military base I know and love, they brought in about a dozen E1/E2 civil servants to replace fifteen uniformed personnel (junior ratings, writers et cetera) for tasks like office admin, the travel desk, and site maintenance. More than halved the salary cost for that cost code, and freed up those uniformed personnel for more operationally relevant tasking. Presumably, we should be spending more money to deploy fewer personnel?

Anonymous said...

"You may think that MoD civil servants should all work cheap or for free for the sheer privilege of doing the job"

I fucking do! I used to work with Civil Servants.. bunch of fucking winging, whining bastards, with more holidays and perks than soft mick. All they did all day was complain about how bad the working conditions were, always took fucking sick days galore, and have a whopping pension and benefits upon retirement, so Mr annonymous .. go and shove it up your arse sideways!

Anonymous said...

and another thing..

There is a bit of a difference between sitting in a comfortable safe office pushing a pen, than fighting for your life.

sixtypoundsaweekcleaner said...

I think some diversionary tactics are being employed here, by the BBC. Their wages have been revealed, but how come there hasn't been the such a hue and cry about it on the MSM? I'm seething about the Beeb's Director General's wages being over £800K! What on earth does he do for it? It's taxpayers money, but I don't remember being asked whether it was okay by me?

caesars wife said...

that gets an A+ and me very angry , why do civil servants need bounuses ???

ohhh the vanities of state socialism might as well call it the civil loreal inc "because your worth it"

AngryDave said...

These cunts have sent our troops to war on the other side of the earth. They sent them on a basis of lies, without vital equiptment, with shitty ammunition, then they tied their hands behind they're backs. Then, when they start dying, they pat themselves on the back, and give themselves bonuses.

I hope the fuckers all choke on their blood money! Better, and braver people than them have died so they can line their pockets.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous @ 12 November 2009 14:22 has it right.

There are a lot of civilians who perform an essential support function in keeping the armed forces equipped and fed, along side other useful technical specialisms. The trouble is they happen to be a part of the Civil Service and are mired in all the managerial bullshit that entails.

Perhaps it would be better if the Royal Navy, Army and Royal Air Force could directly engage the civilian employees and contractors they require to "do the job" rather than coexist with a money squandering bureaucracy that is a little too fond of management theory and less keen on the triffling inconvenience of fighting a war, which frankly skews the Health & Safety returns.

Anonymous said...

"You may think that MoD civil servants should all work cheap or for free for the sheer privilege of doing the job"

Considering the holidays, sick leave (also seen as 'holiday due' by many of these timewasters), perks & eventual gold plated pension I think they have a bloody cheek taking bonuses as well.

Most of them are lazy, inefficient & so far up their own arses that they imagine they're really, really important. The majority are also thick as pigshit and, like politicians, couldn't actually hold down a job in the real world - therefore they join the (Un)Civil Service.

woman on a raft said...

Indeed. The civil servants are very lucky indeed to have their wages and pensions guaranteed in a way that no private-sector worker ever has. I've taken at least two hits when companies went down. The Official Receiver got his wages paid, mostly for telling me I wouldn't. In at least one case the receiver tried to lay claim my wages when I wasn't even contracting for the defunct company. It took weeks to beat them off because they kept telling the client that they couldn't pay me direct. Out fucking rageous.

Considering the value of the package - as detailed above - the MoD wages should be considerably lower than in the private sector. I see no reason for them to receive a bonus, but if they don't do the job they can be sacked and we'll replace them with someone who will. How many millions have we got unemployed? No shortage of candidates for a comfy billet I'll bet.

Anonymous said...

Behind the friendly, convivial face of Postman Prat as shown on TV, lies the narrow, scheming, bigoted mind of a communist apparatchik. He reminds me of the Crocodile Song :

You should never smile at a crocodile
No, you can't get friendly with a crocodile
Don't be taken in by his friendly grin
He's imagining how well you'll fit within his skin.

Chalcedon said...

The bonus is simply a way of topping up a poor salary without having to pay any pension money into the pot. It's a wheeze thought up by Brown at the treasury. Bonuses get taxed but since they aren't part of the pay package the employer doesn't have to pay in any pension money on it.

Anonymous said...

bonus? wage rise~? what the fuck are they, but a distant memory in the private sector...

and anonymous at 14.22 must be a civil servant to present such a watered down, paper thin argument.

It just goes to show. Civil servants have no idea about the real world of work, and will convince themselves that black is white, to substantiate their dream pensions, 30+ holidays a year, Flexible working hours, full sick pay, 1 full years maternity on full pay, etc... etc..

I work along side these fuckers, although I work in the private sector. Anyway I digress... get our boys out of Afghanistan now you complete Cunts ...

418 said...

"Muslim extremist Anjem Choudary has vowed to go ahead with a protest march through Wootton Bassett claiming those who honour the war dead are no different to those who support the 7/7 Tube bombers."

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