Wednesday, 22 July 2009

What could possibly go wrong?

Bouncers in Norwich's notorious nightclub district have been given the power to issue on-the-spot fines without consultation with judges or magistrates.

Now they fear the move could undermine attempts to deter persistent trouble-makers in the city's Prince of Wales Road area where two men have died this year.

The Norfolk police initiative, aimed at training and accrediting members of the community to bolster their work, has seen selected door-staff given powers more commonly associated with police officers. Though the force insists the scheme will only add to law enforcement on the streets - already enhanced by an increased frontline presence - there are concerns that the powers could be misused and may only gloss over serious offences.

Concerns centre on Prince of Wales Road as it once again becomes infamous for alcohol fuelled violence as thousands of young people from across the region visit to enjoy the area's pubs and clubs on a night. A 23-year-old man is currently in the Norfolk and Norwich University Hospital with serious injuries after an attack outside the Qube nightclub following the deaths of 46-year-old Phillip Ward from Drayton and 30-year-old Timothy Moore from Norwich. Paul Allen, chairman of Norwich magistrates, said the “bouncer” scheme had been introduced last October but had only now come to the attention of JPs - and police did not consult with either magistrates or judges before introducing the powers.

I wonder if Norwich Police will get to keep some of the "takings"? *wink*


Anonymous said...

I have a total of four relatives all now working in the Prison Service.. they are on a packet! The whole country has become a FASCIST POLICE STATE. And the majority of people love to earn whilst kicking heads in.

Wesley Groves said...

"Door Hosts" have had de facto run of pubs for yonks.In Belfast I had to have a badge with number clearly shown.(We all look alike).The Great British public are fine sober,but at closing time it ain't pretty.In England I've been told that Luton is the best badge to have (they earn their money apparently on the doors in Bedfordshire).Bouncing is like any job, good and bad.I worked with decent men and I worked with UFF wannabe gangstas whose sole topic of talk as who they had fights with,who could beat whom (gets tedious after a few hours...)It is all down to the Door.Shit doors,shit bouncers,upmarket gaffs it was different.Middle class punters don't kick off they mouth off.

Anonymous said...

Where I live most bouncers are wannabe gangsters, known football hooligans, headcases, roid heads, coke addicts etc - I am sure there are just as many professional doormen who do a responsible job, but, as a profession it must have a far higher degree of criminality than others by its nature so should these people be trusted with such powers that amount to demanding money with menaces , actually I have just realised I could be describing the Police force

Wesley Groves said...

Anon you make a valid point.To expand Bouncing isn't a profession. Most guys have a day job and a lot are from dodgy gyms where steroids flow freely. Result? Big cunts, small balls and smaller brains. Not always. I spoke to Big Ben. (Cos he is Big and his name is Ben) from Ju-Jitsu. He was "asked to quit" after an incident. As we discussed, a bouncer with no record is probably going to be shite. My only concern was that nobody was glassing some poor bastard or being silly. It is Great Fun after 10 pints to 1.Jump off a table...2.Grab a strangers wifes tits...3.Throw water everywhere. Meet & greet, if I am spending money at a pub I expect a bit of civility. That is what I gave punters. I am not a bit of shit, I am not Hercules, I am doing a not very nice job. I do not have (nor ever seeked) powers of arrest. Plod has a bad name in some cities.

Lancastrian Oik said...

Fair enough, Wesley. The punters can be proper arseholes and they and the bouncers fucking deserve each other- but no way does that make it a good idea to give them powers like this. A cunt with a licence is still a cunt.

Wesley Groves said...

My worry Lancs is that if you have upset a Door Host that they will just fine the hell out of you. Seems unworkable, a pished punter is not the most rational of Gods ceatures (I know, I went to nightclubs too) so John Q Public is standing (swaying) there, hasn't got into Sharons knickers and is generally not happy. Six Foot Fucker steps up to fine him. Does John say A.Great, no worries or B.Your Mum had 2 cunts, you are one of them? (Answer is B).

Anonymous said...

I'm afraid any bouncer who tried to fine me off his own bat would probably get comment B from me.

Captain Ranty said...

It is all unlawful of course.

Even a poorly trained legal secretary would wipe their arse on a case like this.

Summary fines runs counter to common law.

Common law trumps statute law by a country mile.

Anyone who pays the trained baboons a single penny is a fuckwit of the highest order.

caesars wife said...

bit of laugh ?

Man bursts into flames after being tazered !

In Canberra police Tazered a suspect who the burst into flames , it is thought e had been sniffing petrol prior to the incident .

wonder how it works with vodka then ?

Man in the Street said...

OK, I live in London. Never heard of such an illogical and illiberal law. If I am in Norwich, am stopped by a fucking bouncer demanding ID and prevented from going about my way I will deck the bastard. He assaulted me first by detaining me. I will do anything within my power to not comply.

Fuck them, fuck Norwich, fuck their Police, fuck their magistrates and any visiting judges.

Anonymous said...

EventGuard is currently the only security company to achieve, and exceed, the standards required by Norfolk police, leading to full accreditation under the scheme in October 2008.

Under the Accreditation the Chief Constable issues EventGuard staff with several police powers (under the Police Reform Act 2002), enabling the company to deliver a unique and wide range of services to clients:

Direction of traffic on the highway
Control of anti-social behaviour, including harassment
Prevention of the drinking of alcohol in designated places
Issuing of fixed penalty notices for certain offences including graffiti and flyposting, dog fouling, littering and public disorder
Over the coming months Eventguard will be completing Police Accreditation in other counties in the East of England, as part of the national Association of Chief Police Officers’ (ACPO) requirement.

police created quangos.

E's R US said...

Bouncers control the doors, and by that, control the drug dealers.
Giving them even more power is like putting the Krays in charge of security.

Wesley Groves said...

Prevention of exit is false arrest. Thing is, door staff will swear blind (like plod) that John Q Public had "out of the blue" decided to attack half a dozen of them. The pub manager will suddebly appear & verify that. CCTV goes "missing". EventSec do some similar shite but usually you get a wee lassie saying "No entry" and you barge past anyway. Drugs?Yes depends on the door. I did Planet Love & I wanted punters on Es hugging each other not loons with sharps trying to carve initials on me.

Temperance Party Seven said...

Caesars Wife.
At this time of night, and with what i've put away, if they tazer me, i'll take half of London with me.

Anonymous said...

Wesley Groves you're such a fucking bore!

banned said...

No doubt the Police will be happy appointing bouncers as Deputy Sheriffs to dotheir dirty work outside the clubs but what authority might they have over passing members of the public who have nothing to do with said premises?
It might also upset you to know that Security Guards at shopping centres and the like have the right to handcuff you once they have been trained and authorised to do so by the Police.

Unsworth said...

@ Wesley Groves

"Plod has a bad name in some cities."

Care to name any city where Plod has a 'good' name?

Can't think of one at the moment...

Wesley Groves said...

Anon 1.06 and you are a Bacon. Unsworth - genius!

The Economic Voice said...

Robert Peel must be turning in his Gravy.

Paul said...

Funny thing. I'm a young bloke that loves pubs, drinks real ale and loves liberty.

I was in the pub this evening, chatting to people at the bar. People were sharing their witty tales of their friendly and good-natured encounters with the police from years gone by - naturally including illegal lock-ins and thirsty coppers.

Anyway, it's half eleven and me and my dad decide to walk home, in a small town where essentially nothing happens compared to the crime-ridden scum that infests city centres. There isn't a soul about.

We're walking home and a lone copper in his Land Rover wants to know what we're doing. It should look painfully obvious.

Anyway, I was thinking all this through in my head. And afterwards I ended up getting pretty angry. It all came back to me: the police were once seen as being of the people. Now, far too often (as in this example), they act like ill-educated, politically neutered, authoritarian dickheads with a barely disguised contempt for peaceful citizens.

Britain needs rescuing - and fast.

Paul said...

I should add that this is a tiny, non-important instance and is seen as 'normal' behaviour by the police but for me it's a very small symptom of a much bigger problem.

Does the state serve the citizen or the other way round?

wv: turnons (eh? perverts!)

Mr Insignificant said...

It is WRONG that the council can employ people to hand out on the spots fines, it is even WRONG that the police can do it, and to give security guards and bouncers the same power is also clearly wrong.

Perhaps its all part of the start of empowering more and more non-police to enforce EU law one day?

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