Monday, 25 May 2009

No More Top Down Solutions To Our Rotten Constitution, A Constitutional Convention And English Parliament Now


I am sick of spending the last thirty years of my life disenfranchised- so STV or AV plus. The only assembly that does not have some form of PR is Westminster. There must be an end to 'safe' seats.

An English Parliament in the Commons, and if so desired by Scotland,Wales,Ulster and Kernow, a Federal Parliament to replace the House of Lords to deal with Defence and Foreign affairs.

Return all other functions of the State to Regional or County Level

End all 'professional' politicians, how can a twenty four year old with zero life experiance become an MP !

A Swiss style cantonal system is what is desperatly needed, if the North East wants to be a socialist region- fine, if the South-West wants to be a Libertarian/Social Democrat region - fine. Just do not ask the South West to fund Socialism when it has not voted for it. If Kernow wants to re establish the Stannary Parliament and organise it constitutional position on the lines of Jersey, it should go for it.

Our current Constitutional 'fit up' ended in 2009 courtesy of this Darien Government and this Rotten Parliament. The sooner the likes of Alan Johnson take over at the top of the Labour Party,the better. People who understand that it has all come unravelled.

Brown is in denial, Cameron is panicking to get 'successful' people into the Conservative Party to replace the dross that are leaving under a cloud or were only ever lobby fodder sitting there for decades on a sinecure of cheap booze and expenses. What is certain is that will not be business as usual

32 comments:

Shibby said...

then what

Goodnight Vienna said...

Yes Guthrum, on paper it sounds great and is probably what we actually need but ultimately it just makes it easier for us to be subsumed into the EU - in fact we'd be doing their work for them. It's a mess. It looks like being a full member of the EU is a done deal. What's self-evident is that our current system of government is done for thanks to this shower of self-serving sh*ts at Westminster.

Revolution Harry said...

Perhaps you should take a look at this:

https://www.thebcgroup.org.uk/

Guthrum said...

It looks like being a full member of the EU is a done deal.

Nope- Sovereignty lies with the people not Parliament, and especially not the unelected Brown who signed the latest accord.

A simple vote in Parliament or a Referendum will overturn Brown's work.

What are they going to do ? Invade us ! they have not invaded Norway or Switzerland. In 1975 the People of this country voted by referendum to enter a trading bloc, not a political Union, with an Imperial Constitution being foisted on us.

Phil McVile said...

I think they must all go. If any of the current crop of MP's remain they will only corrupt any intake of new ones. Should any of the current crop return to Parliament they are likely to feel resentful of how they have been treated (regardless of any justification for that, they will), that could see a cross party agenda of serial lawmaking the like of which we've never seen. Draconian laws and censorship on an unprecedented scale to make sure we never find out what they're doing again.

I see that as quite a likely scenario and any means of stopping it happening are justified.

Guthrum said...

‘Wanted – 1 million rebellious Britons’

Fat Chance- not while Eastenders is on

Wanted-one thousand dedicated people to force the issue, not one million sheeple.

Size is not everything you know !

defender said...

Alan Johnson communist party of great britain, Guthrum, do you know that he is a committed marxist communist of long standing to this day?
surely you checked the comarade out before coming to your recommendation?

Guthrum said...

Bit like once a Nazi always a Nazi like Nick Griffin ? ;-)

Now passing himself of as a democrat.

If Johnson is a committed supported of STV/AV+ he is hardly a card carrying communist now is he.

Not my recommendation as I am not a member of the Labour Party- just my analysis, that a former postman, untouched by the expenses troughing is quite likely to be the next Leader of the Labour Party, as it dumps the champagne lawyer faux socialists.

Just don't see a Griffin style coup even in the Labour Party, they tried that with Brown and it blew up in their faces.

North Northwester said...

This is where it usually starts to go wrong.

An existing and acceptable political arrangement fails spectacularly and many people are hurt, upset and angry (often with just cause as now), and then every radical and 'reformer' and revolutionary comes up with a new plan to make the world a better place, and before you know it much of the good and the familiar has been destroyed or debauched or replaced.

This is what the political class has done by abusing and subverting our constitution in its greed and control-freakery and now good, sensible people are calling for the system to be changed wholescale.

It happened in the USA last year, and they have a revolutionary Marxist in charge who is intent on turning one of the freest countries in the world into a permanently bureaucratic, social-democratic European-style of state, with high taxes, governmental micro-management of all aspects of human life, and the lgally-enforceable stifling of opposition.

Now if you want proportional representation, you'll get a political system like Italy's, or Germany's , or Israel's.

Which means decades of wheeler-dealing between parties and the assurance that the centre parties will always hold power in alliance with one or two slightly off-centre parties on the one hand - which leads to homogeneous policy-making such as we have with the big Three now.

On the other hand, you can get P/R arrangements that mean that one 'wing' wins a minority of seats, but has to govern in alliance with the barking-mad extremists that have disproportionate power, on the other.

Or then there's the multi-multi-party system where the coalitions fall all the time becasue the political scene is too diverse.

Take your pick.

What you won't get is a competitive, vigorous political system in which the parties vie to off different visions and large-scale (but not revolutionary) change in the details and machinery of government.

I can't see any system of PR that'll deliver an anti-EU parliament that would take us out and restore our sovereign powers back, nor one brave enough and confident to risk the ire of the Left in reducing the bloated bureaucracy and the excessive and destructive Welfare State, nor one willing to put able-bodied dole-scroungers to work for their benefits over and above the wailing and militancy of the trade unions, nor one willing to go up agaisnt the Islamist militants amongst us who have no care for representative government at all.

The top three parties have abused and polluted the first-past-the-post system and much else besides, but the wide and deep reforms that our economy, tax system, and State power need to have inflicted on them will not be delivered by any coalition consisting of minority parties forever looking over their shoulders to see who might be prizing their coalition partners away from them.

There is much to be done that needs to be done both robustly and also without destroying much of what is good in this country's constitution. And you won't get that with P/R.

Punish the main parties in the County and Euro elections by all means. I intend to hurt my preferred Conservatives as hard and as obviously as I can this time.

But if you really want the DUP or the Socialist Labour Party dominating Cabinets and Budgets from now on, or the Liberal Democrats lentilling and sandalling and destroying our surviving private sector, defence establishment, successful schools and what's left of the criminal justice system to death, then P/R's the thing that'll deliver such lousy results.

Westminster would look and act like the European parliament forever - and the British government will act just like the European Commission.

Not a freedom-generating or wealth-protecting option.

The buggers need to be told to do their jobs properly, and to stop changing the State and its ministries every time they can't think of an actual policy.

Old Holborn said...

Fools

Politicians are not the answer, they are the problem.

Any number of celebrity chefs, footballers or IT Girls could lead this country out of the abyss Politicians have engineered us into.

Finance? Put the head of the Coop bank in charge

Law and order? Tony Martin

Foreign Policy? Joanna Lumley.

Before you all sqwark like demented banshees, I ask WHY NOT?

Have the incumbants really made such a good job of it you wouldn't trust anyone else?

We are in an abyss. A deep dark black place.

Politicians led us here. It won't be them that leads us out again.

Guthrum said...

NNW

Italy/Germany/Israel

Ah yes those really weak countries, cursed with an excess of Democracy.

Worked and lived in two, visted the other. Seemed to function just fine.

First past the post is a busted flush,the last refuge of people who need a 'strong man/woman' to tell what to do and think, and kick johnny foreigner out and solve all their problems.

Guthrum said...

Politicians are not the answer, they are the problem

Exactly- because they forgot who they were answerable to.

They are all about to get a severe reminder

Old Holborn said...

9,000,000 from the 60,000,000 of us have led us into misery and despair.

Yet they claimed a mandate. Their leaders are now all millionaires whilst their subjects are bankrupt and destitute. Their policies failed and we all paid the price, not them.

This ALWAYS happens when you give a minority the upper hand.

Switzerland. Look and learn. The richest, happiest, healthiest, most educated nation on the planet.

Neutral. Democratic. Innovative. Educated.

"but we couldn't possibly..." I hear you cry.

Yes, we can. Right now.

Revolution Harry said...

Size is not everything you know !

You could have just wished them well with their efforts.

North Northwester said...

"First past the post is a busted flush,the last refuge of people who need a 'strong man/woman' to tell what to do and think, and kick johnny foreigner out and solve all their problems."

It doesn't need a strong man/woman to kick out Johnny foreigner, but rather people to use what we already have properly.

1000 years of constitutional evolution,local administration and flexible, incremental law-making based on common ( that is shared) morality is a good hand to be dealt in life.


If you're ridden off the road, sack the driver; don't burn out the bus.

Guthrum said...

1000 years of constitutional evolution,local administration and flexible, incremental law-making based on common ( that is shared) morality is a good hand to be dealt in life.

What cobblers-

1066 military seizure of England
1215 barons revolt
1348 black death
1381 peasants revolt
1485 military coup
1642 English Civil War
1685 Attempted Coup
1688 successful Coup
1745 attempted coup
1832 Reform Act
1894 extension of the vote
1922 extension of the vote
1945 Creation of the Welfare State
1979 Winter of Discontent
2009 Destruction of the Rotten Parliament

The Swiss created the basis of their confederation five hundred years ago !

What History Books do you read ??

Old Holborn said...

"If you're ridden off the road, sack the driver; don't burn out the bus."

Check the bus first. It'll have no MOT, failed brakes, rusted suspension, steering joints in chaos.

Then blame the driver

Fausty said...

We've never had a better opportunity to shape our politics than we do now. We've woken up our politicians and have three major elections occurring within 12 months. OUR time is nigh.

9 million chose the fate of 60 million because 30 million couldn't be arsed to vote, or couldn't be arsed to think about the issues and vote.

So 9 million people voted away the property and freedom of the rest of the population.

We need an English Parliament and then devolution to county level. If the Scots and Welsh want independence, give it to them but then force them to stand on their own two feet - no subsidies from England.

Once subsidies are curtailed and the parasitic socialists discover they have to work for a living, they become less socialist.

Wyrdtimes said...

Not enough.

English taxes for England
English law for England
Home rule for England

--

Kernow wtf? You must mean Cornwall - a fine English county.

subrosa said...

Completely agree with Fausty. Let Scotland have independence and her oil and renewables of course (because the oil has kept England for the past 35+ years) and use Westminster as an English parliament with a federal wee bit for joint policies such as defence.

Scotland would manage quite well I am sure. Oh I know many will say they can't without England but that's just total arrogance.

Shibby said...

That is arrogance, subrosa. It's like the blindly patriotic Americans, the types who say "our country is a guiding light, you'd all be screwed without us."

Scotland would be fine without England but it would be nice to keep some ties, although I am in favour of political independance.

Thud said...

kernow...why not give everybody a personal parliament at this rate.

Anonymous II said...

The biggest political problem is that politicians, are rarely, if ever, experts in any relevant field. Much, necessary expertise and knowledge has been lost by privatising goverment establishments, and politicising the civil service. Turning the clock back, is just not feasible, so perhaps what is needed is a completely reformed apolitical upper chamber, comprising, leading academics and business leaders, military top brass, the judiciary, etc. elected by their peers, with the authority, to not only scrutinize government policy, but to oversee the working of the lower house. Each such elected member to be limited to a single fixed term tenure.

Gareth said...

"This is what the political class has done by abusing and subverting our constitution in its greed and control-freakery and now good, sensible people are calling for the system to be changed wholescale."

It's not quite as simple as this but an early step should be to change the politicians for parliamentarians.

See: Speaker Martian. Plainly partisan. A Government stooge at the heart of Parliament and Parliament did nothing about it. A Parliament with authority because we lend it to them yet Parliament has barely exercised it's power due to grubby goings on and greasey pole climbing.(Most of them would like a go on the steering wheel so toe their party line to achieve it) The power of the Government must be reduced. Most MPs do not get or do not care what Parliament is for, what it should be doing and what it is capable of.

The Government's answer to a rotten Speaker is... Disembowel the role of Speaker!

Had we a better separation of Government and Parliament with Parliament clearly in the driving seat we would likely not have got into as much mess as we are.

AntiCitizenOne said...

How about negative voting.

You have x candidates and x-1 votes.

Vote for those who you object to representing you. Leaving those you wouldn't mind....

caesars wife said...

parliment is rotten in the sense that it has lost respect by aquiesance and in becoming so has failed to recognise the problems it was designed to deal with.

this is in part to the socialist construct it has slowly been turned into.

Whilst i am happy to see some real politik return , it do not go along with the idea of Libertine as in some cases that too is a socialist derivative disguised as a no problem anarchist stance.

With so many lessons and ideas from history at our finger tips these days i can see why some would rush to a libertine conclusion , wrongly assuming that there is no need for social order or structure.

The dreary concrete sameness of the socialist construct ends up in form of prison useually tarted up and presented as Eutopia. As we have seen even in its new form it corrupts into a stasi state and the wide spread revulsion of it is very real.

So can footballers and chefs run a country better than a goverment , i imagine pretty soon they would have to be making laws and we are back to the pigs problem in animal farm .

We have had many centuries to grapple with the idea of what freedom and society is and with have settled with a democracy and an hereditary head of state , it is quite effiecient with solid checks and balances to stave off the worst calamties that can befall a large populus.

to look at Joe Stalin he quickly realised that idealogical politics needed to be shot and airbrushed out , he saw rule as a machine , with levers to be thrown or banished.

In the UK for all its difficulties we avoided the limiting factors of socialism and marxism , and cherished the enlightenment eras as where societies have best flourished.

the big things of a mature democracy are up for discussion , i am wary of those that say they have the only solution , the organic nature of human life is at odds with goverments and ideas.

perhaps we have become unatural and lost , our understanding of where we come from and where we go to . To live a free, full and worthwhile life is in some ways is beyond laws , but is interesting to note that you have to have laws to create the space in which to live a free life, for you are either bonded or free ,, that is what a civilised society is supposed to create , the chance to be free determined by the individual on a journey whilst not venturing into the mapped areas marked danger or harm.

personal responsibility and accountabilty are skills of map reading and choice , socialism on the other hand is pre programmed sat nav and destination by people who see the need for your personal choices as irellevent .

at least we are begining to understand why we are angry at what labour have done , that is real progress!!.

Guthrum said...

Kernow wtf? You must mean Cornwall - a fine English county.

It is as constitutionally independent as the Isle of Man,Jersey and Guernsey, it was annexed in 1894. Shall England annex these too ?

'With so many lessons and ideas from history at our finger tips these days i can see why some would rush to a libertine conclusion , wrongly assuming that there is no need for social order or structure'.

Whats Libertine ??

You prefer an Authoritarian structure, imposed from above?

Why is everybody so terrified of PR why continue a system that disenfranchises sixty per cent of the population.

More of- I want somebody to look after me, tell me what to do infantilism that this country has been reduced to since 1945

Britons shall never be slaves ?? already are in their heads!

Chalcedon said...

If only 9 million vote out of an electorate of 30 million or so the vote should be null and void. we have technology to allow anyone to vote from home or somewhere close via the internet. This can be secure too. You know it can if there is a will. The same technology can abolish second homes for thieving pols too. If less than 50% of voters vote it should not count. However, after this scandal I do think the lethargy affecting voters will evaporate. I'm so fucking angry and I expect most people are. This was a topic being exercised ad nauseam at the pub yesterday. I take that as a good sounding board for next weeks vote! I have already voted by post.

TheBigYin said...

Alan Johnson is a prize pr*ck. He buggered up the hospitality industry and forced 12 million Britons to be treated as lepers!

What did he do? He brought in the smoking ban!

John H Baker
www.freedom2choose.info

Gareth said...

Guthrum said: "Why is everybody so terrified of PR why continue a system that disenfranchises sixty per cent of the population."

The usual argument against it is that it unjustly puts power in the hands of minority parties who can sway votes. That is only true if you still had the rote party obedience we have at the moment. Destroy the whips as well and perhaps we would get somewhere.

I'd say it would require MPs to do their job in Parliament and that is what they don't want to do - to have to explain the legislation in order to get backing for it.


"Britons shall never be slaves ?? already are in their heads!"

The worst ones for that are our MPs. Brainwashed to believe they can only do their job inside the party machine and should largely rubber stamp legislation or oppose for the sake of opposing. They were each elected with the authority of their constituents but so many of them never exercise it for a quiet life.

T' old 'un said...

"Guthrum said:
The usual argument against it is that it unjustly puts power in the hands of minority parties who can sway votes."

What does it do for the independant??? No oppoetunity ar all. PR is just another big com.
Politics is not about governing (look it up in Roget) It is about gaining and weilding power and gang warfare.
http://www.angelfire.com/realm3/accord/demreal.htm

Henry Crun said...

Why do we need a parliament at all? Belgium seemed to get on fine without one last year, admittedly the motorways are shit, and the place is a haven for paedophiles, but other than that it's an alright place.

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