Thursday, 7 May 2009

ID card anyone?

UPDATE: I have decided to apply for THREE. What fun.


Shibby said...

The situation is worrying.

Rab C. Nesbitt said...

I asked everyone at work last night if they would be happy to carry an ID card. Not one said yes. They were shocked when I told them that if the cunting government had their way, it would be compulsory.

john in cheshire said...

I would ask that blogs such as this not only campaign against compulsory id cards, but also provide a conduit of advice on how to avoid having them. What do people like me, lazy apathetic gits, who know when something is wrong but don't have a clue how to oppose such things. How do we make sure id cards are not introduced and if they are, how do we stuff up the system to make it unworkable?

Old Holborn said...

"how do we stuff up the system to make it unworkable?"

Simples. Get more than one. That is why I am applying for three. In fictitious names. Of dead people.

Shibby said...

John, if Old Holborn is anything like most bloggers, he will inform but not act - that is his role.

It is possible that he is waiting for the answer as much as you are.

I know that I am.

Henry North London said...

Ah now that sounds like a fabulous idea OH

Shibby said...

Getting lots of cards? Plastic is cheap, and you could get caught and put away for a long time, particularly when the IDs are more serious/compulsory.

I wish it would work, but I don't think it will. Best of luck though.

Old Holborn said...

Come on guys, this is easy.

Look through the deaths sections of your local papers. Plenty of names in there. Get in quick, whilst the system is not water tight, hole it below the waterline and it will sink without trace.

If I was a Manc drug dealer, I'd be applying for hundreds.

Sue said...

Best action of all would be if NOBODY signed up for one! We should be openly just campaigning for people to refuse to apply for one.

What are they going to do then? Frogmarch and force people down to their "induction centres?"

Shibby said...

Sue, they would quite easily screw us over by forcing it when you get a passport renewed.

Also quite possible for them to make life difficult in other aspects such as national travel, healthcare, education and so on, if we don't have this bullshit.

Something must be done, because if it isn't we're screwed.

But I highly doubt anyone is smart enough to work out just what will actually help the situation - instead of coming up with things that will worsen it or have no impact.

Old Holborn said...

"What are they going to do then? Frogmarch and force people down to their "induction centres?""


People refusing to submit to biometric identification will be gradually denied access to services::

denied the right to buy property
denied access to banking
denied the right to travel
denied car ownership (by linking biometric identification to the driving licence)
denied the ability to rent a home
denied the ability to stay in accomodation, e.g. hotels
denied welfare and benefits
denied the right to vote

interorogation centres are set up across the country from 2006 (now in progress)
UK Nationals, Expatriates, and Visa holders will be required to apply for the identity card. (You will be subject to the same process when applying for the compulsory biometric passport from May 2006).
You will be interviewed face-to-face and a “biographical footprint” compiled to trace your financial transactions and activity. You will need to provide documents to prove who you are. If you cannot provide satisfactory documentation then it could indicate you are an illegal immigrant.
you will be required to give finger prints and iris scans. This will be stored on the NIR and information transferred to the EU database (SIS II)
The government now have your biometrics and these correspond to your identification number hence you are ‘padlocked’ to the passport (and ID card when it is issued).

If you fail to attend your identity screening you will be fined £2500. If you continue to refuse to submit to screening, the fine will be repeated.
you will not be allowed to buy property, take a mortgage, or have a bank account.
if used for ‘e-democracy’ or connected to the electoral register, you will lose your right to vote.
If you refuse to pay the fines the government will send in the bailiffs who will take away your property and sell it to get the money.

Shibby said...

"People refusing to submit to biometric identification will be gradually denied access to services::

denied the right to buy property
denied access to banking
denied the right to travel
denied car ownership (by linking biometric identification to the driving licence)
denied the ability to rent a home
denied the ability to stay in accomodation, e.g. hotels
denied welfare and benefits
denied the right to vote "

Yes, I saw that bit on the site and broke my hand on my desk.

Shibby said...

Ok people this is quite enough, something has to be done.

Ordering/forging too many IDs will not help
Sending people shirts will not help
Reporting MPs for fraud will not work

Get your noggins together and find me a real solution - preferably one that brings about some kind of actual impact and not a bunch of bloggers and offbeat journalists remarking briefly on it.

Anonymous said...


Why don't YOU make a positive fucking suggestion instead of slagging everyone else off? Twat.

Roger Thornhill said...

Two ideas:

1. We set up a private ID card system to maintain our identity. Database is not accessible without a warrant, so all those prod-nosed Council bods who are bunged a wad of tenners by some scumbag will not have access. Break the Government monopoly.

2. As OH said, "pinch one off" in their swimming pool. They will have to drain it, clean it and start all over again.

Having lived in a place where one has ID cards, the actual use of them is pretty good, but we are talking New Labour and the EU, who are a bunch of scumbags and not to be trusted.

I'd rather trust a company openly competing in the market for IDs, where I "lend" my data for safe keeping so it is NOT owned and cannot be a) retained if I leave the service, b) be passed on or used without my permission.

By setting up a parallel service, we expose the cost and the Government agenda while not being "against" all the "uses" they openly talk about. Of course it is not the open uses, but the hidden ones that they are after. Making OUR lives more convenient is not their game - making THEIR lives more convenient is.

Shibby said...

Because I don't have one. OH here is much smarter than myself and even he doesn't seem to have helped the situation apart from ranting to a relatively small group of miscreants, most of which are not in any place to do anything either - average citizens with themselves and their own to care for - it's completely understandable.

I don't mean to slag anyone off.

I'm just frustrated that we all know shit is up and nobody has any real solution, it feels like a race that we're losing by a hundred miles.

Old Holborn said...

BREAK their system


Remove yourself from the voting register and you become almost invisible.

Shibby said...

Old Holborn, I'm not on the voting register and I don't feel invisible at all.

Henry North London said...

Vote Libertarian and get active and stand for parliament we are desperate for people to stand as MPs

Swell the party coffers so that we can fight the LibLabCon and the BNP

Go out and urge other people to Vote libertarian

Shibby we are not losing the race, we are being apathetic and wringing our hands when we could be doing something useful

K. MacEgan said...

O'H to an extend poor Shibby is right.Compulsion is their tool.Today there are a million fucking rules.Repor everything?That will not work.UK is a beaurocracy unparelleled.Harmony of pen & sword.Bleating about the shite will not stop it.But you lot have nice houses,kids in school,cars.Too much to lose.Fuck it you had your chance at G20.

Shibby said...

Henry, as MacEgan says below you, there is too much at stake for most if not all people here.

And do you really think they'll let anyone with decent intentions anywhere near a position of power? Perhaps by accident.

Thanks for your acknowledgement MacEgan, all these small things will do nothing to save our country from what is happening right now.

Although seemingly elitist, the authority is too dispersed - take out one part, something will take its place. And if it doesn't we'll still have most of the totalitarianism going on that we didn't take down.

Another problem is that the authority is trickling down into the civilians - to destroy it altogether would require a civilian sacrifice that would be felt for decades.

We can't win, we won't win, and we probably won't even try.

Whatever we do (if anything) will scab over and heal and continue to grow like a tumor.

Henry North London said...

This is why it is important to stand and to campaign against them.

You haven't lost the ability to knock on a door or walk around the area that you live have you?

You lot are saying the battles over Well its only just begun..

You have to tell people what they are sleepwalking into. Nobody bothers and that is what is causing such crap

Henry North London said...

With that kind of defeatist attitude you'll never get anywhere Shibby

Shibby said...

Henry, if it is a case of "waking up the nation" then we will be beaten by numbers. If 20 of us went around our areas and tried to talk to them, how many would close their doors with changed perspectives? How many would even care? And then of course we'd only reach a tiny proportion of the population.

It's a nice idea but consider this: we already know, what difference is it going to make if a couple hundred more know?

And again, they'd all just be asking "what do we do?".

And we wouldn't be able to tell them. At least, I know I wouldn't.

Laurence said...

Opponents of the national identity database need to go further than merely suggesting, as did John Gray at his lecture last night in Bristol, that it will be used for not-very-nice purposes by future governments.

A voracious government database itself undermines national security.

The database, when it gets into the hands of a foreign government, or non-government, that wishes us ill, is a weapon of great power. Everybody in the country becomes vulnerable to blackmail and fraud based on one's finances, health, genetics (& hence paternity), police history, drug, sex & porn habits, location history, and expense claims.

Our government has not demonstrated any limit to the kind of information it will hold. Data feeds such as storing innocent people's DNA for 12 years, police photography at demonstrations, interrogations under torture - all these flow into the insatiable database.

Will the government renounce any data feed?

Shibby said...

Henry, it's not a defeatist attitude.

It's seeing fatal flaws in everything I've seen so far.

I've been in trouble for hacking in the past too. I do not want to risk anything these days without knowing that it will work. I do not want to get in trouble when I could lose more than I would if I just got the damn ID cards.

Because if it doesn't we could all end up in prison or paying thousands of pounds (or getting our stuff stolen by gov' bastards).

Or worse, losing another of the last few ounces of rights we have.

Shibby said...

In light of my last comment and before anyone else says it, I freely admit to being a coward.

Shibby said...

Laurence, torture? Really? Oh me oh my, tell me it ain't so.

Although I wouldn't put it past them to start that shit.

Torture doesn't work.

I had not even considered the threat of an ill-intentioned foreign power gaining our information, that's terrifying. Although I'm sure many will agree that our greatest threat is currently our own government.

Henry North London said...

All the more reason to band together and go knocking on doorsteps

Most people never see their politician If you have the guts to stand up and listen to what they want to blast out on you and say we can deliver then you will get a vote

Voting is a bloody right and we can vote all the current MPs out It takes numbers, You have to do the leg work or you wont reap the prize.

As you sow so shall you reap

Honestly why are you so scared? If thats the case why not go live in Dubai Its even worse there.

Old Holborn said...

There are only 646 of them

For every one of them, there are 92,500 of us.

Remind them often. I do.

Henry North London said...

Negativity Shibby It emanates from your blog...

You really are depressed arent you?

Get some help

Sue said...

OH's method of overloading the system might just work. If they have to double, triple check every application, it will soon crash and burn. We can try that first.

We cannot give up on this, we have to resist until we beat the bastards!

K. MacEgan said...

O'H there are more than 646 of them.They are backed up by well paid & well armed plod.By every little shit of a DSS clerk.By wankers at Cardiff airport taking yer toothpaste in case you blow up a plane.One idea I had was to get a lighthouse.A shotgun.Any cunt came by uninvited BANG.Seriously.But I like going to the shops so perhaps DERRY is the answer.95% republican,mostly dissident.Plod is scared shitless to leave Strand Rd barracks,that is how it should be.Wear the uniform,pay the price!

Shibby said...

My blog does not emanate any more negativity than Old Holborn's, Henry, so I don't know why you're attacking it.

MacEgan you are right about there being more than 646 of them. Simply because the power is so dispersed and even civilians are getting in on the act - spying for the government.

Sue, if it does work I fear it will only have a very temporary effect. It would be very nice to see it happen though.

The problem is, the way they set this up, we will all suffer if the system does crash. People will come to depend on it.

Anonymous said...

As it happens, you don't actually need to do all that much to render ID cards worthless; the Great British scumbag will do it all for you.

ID Cards as designed are chip and pin cards with a tranche of data on them on the card. No readers have yet been designed by our oh-so trusting Government, so the odds are we'll get a half-working bodge-up of commercial fingerprint reader and chin & pin machine.

The fingerprint reader will be subject to the same constraints as all other designs, and won't work reliably. So, the security will come down to the chip and pin system, which is a known system with known vulnerabilities.

Essentially, you are asking a person to carry an item with them that they control so you can try to authenticate against that;this is madness pure and simple. All it takes to break is a card which looks vaguely convincing, and a chip which the user makes themselves which answers "Yes, correct" whatever pin is typed in.

And there you have it: a card which absolutely proves who you are so you can walk into a shop with a card with, say, a Star Wars stormtrooper for the photo and Osama bin Laden as the name and as long as the pin checks out (which is always will), you have "proved" who you are.

Basically, its a fraudster's charter.

It won't work as an ID card, but it won't half work for discrediting the Government that implements it.

Shibby said...

To some extent I like the magic card idea.

No idea how to implement it though - not like I have a chip writer or know the format of records/etc on the cards.

Ruth said...

I'm torn between OH's idea of getting multiple ID cards from the crooks in govt now or waiting for a couple of months for the first cards to appear - which will also mean the start of fake ID cards - and paying those crooks for a couple of fake ones. Somehow, the latter idea has more appeal - and will probably be cheaper. As the card readers will not be available until 2010, see,3800010403,39427411,00.htm
we could lead them a merry dance.

Anonymous said...

There may 646 of them but they can call on 800,00 troops if required. Thats probably why they couldn`t give a fuck if we kick off.

K. MacEgan said...

"Civilians" and cards.I hope nobody here is stupid to fall for the nomenclature trick (Recession=Depression)Everyone in the UK is a civilian if they are not in the armed forces.Got that? Plod tries to validate itself by wearing 2 guns & looking like a reject twat from True Grit.Next cards.They cannot read half the stuff that they are meant to.That doesnt man they will be scrapped.Just that you poor bastards will be stood around,hands up for hours whilst plod realises Mrs Wilson of Aberdeen is not Leila Abdullah of the PLO.

Youf of today said...

"But you lot have nice houses, kids in school, cars."

And those of us that don't?

I have:
Some clothes, books, games.
A still-valid, pre-biometric passport, which I have no intention of renewing.
Two bank accounts totaling less than £200

I'll be 18 in October. What can someone with nothing physical to lose do?

Shibby said...

Completely fuck everything up for them. Take as much in one shot as you can.

Break things, crack things, hijack things (TV stations would be fucking fantastic).

Lead them on a wild goose chase and don't get caught for as long as you can.

Youf of today said...

Take over a TV station?

"Good evening, London.

Allow me first to apologize for this interruption. I do, like many of you, appreciate the comforts of every day routine - the security of the familiar, the tranquility of repetition. I enjoy them as much as any bloke.

But in the spirit of commemoration, thereby those important events of the past - usually associated with someone's death or the end of some awful bloody struggle, are celebrated by a nice holiday, I thought we could mark this November the 5th, a day that is sadly no longer remembered, by taking some time out of our daily lives to sit down and have a little chat."

K. MacEgan said...

Youf several ideas come to mind. A single plod would be nice (teach 'em what even odds mean) but Ghengis Khan said only a fool fights when he cannot win.A critical number have to coalese.Sabotaging shit is good,sugar in police car petrol tanks is both easy & cheap.Or go abroad.£55 one way entry visa to Pakistan.Now if enough dudes did that the mothers would crap themselves.Join the TA.Free arms training,PT and pay!I did!

sixtypoundsaweekcleaner said...

But apparently, we've got to pay at least £30 for this ID card, some sources put the cost at £60. Just who is going to pay for this? I can't think of anyone, other than the rich, who will fork out for this. Certainly the doleys won't be able to afford it.

So, what is their next strategy?

K. MacEgan said...

60 quid a wk-Insp Truscott wants the poorest of the poor to be card carriers thus a way will be found to "assist" those on low (or no) wages to enjoy the freedom of the card.

sixtypoundsaweekcleaner said...

Well, I can't afford to pay. So who is going to put their hand in their pocket to pay for me? And at what price? Or rather, what's the ulterior motive?

Youf of today said...

@K. MacEgan, 20:41

Are you kidding? It'll be given _free_ to them, the next time they sign on. Lovely soundbites about "Streamlining" will be heard, and another umpteen thousand will be issued.

I suspect my mother (NHS nurse) would be be in a similar situation. Benefits and government (In the widest sense) jobs are the two easiest places to require them, without the headlines.

Laurence said...

We are about to become the most vulnerable state on earth. Any foreign government worth its salt will soon have a copy of our interlinked national databases – they'll know more about Brits than they know about their own people; we're decommissioning our only method of communicating to an occupied population without a power supply; and we sign asymmetric extradition deals.

poor bloody taxpayer said...

Is there anyone here who seriously believes any government could get this system to work properly? How do you herd sixty million plus people to their local 'interrogation' centre? It will be another expensive fiasco. But look on the bright side, the likes of David Blunkett will have made a tidy packet out of their little id scam. All that lovely taxpayer money waiting to be hoovered up.

K. MacEgan said...

Laurence raised an interesting point.I think if the former Red Army (or Al Quida) or Aliens invaded tomorrow I & millions of others would "collaborate" and have MPs plod & corrupt judges swinging frae lampposts.It is in East Timor.Collaborate with Indonesia if you have nothing to lose.Look at Apodeti.

Laurence said...

There's one other major vulnerability we have, and that no other country has. The master database of the Ordnance Survey, known as MasterMap is ready for the taking - I presume any decent spying operation would have a copy. About half a billion geographic features, all named, categorized and measured to an amazing level of accuracy. Our trusty WW2 tactic of removing signposts doesn't work so well if every invading soldier has MasterMap on his iPhone.

Going back to my first point about the identity database (& other gov databases) getting into hostile hands... just imagine the whole country in the state of nervous collapse that our MPs are this weekend. There'd be resignations, divorces, court cases and suicides all around us. Maybe the hostile power would have learned from the Telegraph and drip feed it to prolong the terror...

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