Saturday, 21 February 2009

Mama, we're all racist now.

The common ancestor of the species Politicus taxthearseoffus.

(Picture immigrated and granted residency from here)

(Apologies in advance for typos. I spilled a very nice Rioja on my keyboard and it's still a bit sticky)


Obo makes mention of the 'shock result' that gave the BNP a seat on Kent council. Like Obo, I barely raised an eyebrow. I'd go so far as to say my eyebrow hairs remained entirely undisturbed at this news, apart from the long one on the left who said 'So what?' He'll be well plucked for doing Ed Balls impressions later.

Why is it a surprise? The rest of the article lists other election results, in which the BNP share of the vote puts them in serious contention with the three main parties. They are not fourth in these lists, they are beating mainstream parties. There is much wailing and gnashing of teeth among the Righteous over this because they are terrified that Nick Griffin will send shaven-headed madmen round to beat them with recently deceased sparrows. How can it be, they cry. How can people be voting for a racist party?

It's actually very simple, Righteous. You have spent the best part of a decade telling everyone who disagrees with you that they are racists. You have drummed it into them and screamed it at them. Why, then, would they fear voting for a party deemed 'racist'? It's what they've been told they are.

These people don't know why they have been classed as racist, but they have. For years. For every utterance that does not accord with Righteous thinking. Especially when they say that maybe, just maybe, we shouldn't let absolutely anyone into the country without let or hindrance. This is not a white-only thing. First and second generation immigrants, of all skin tones, of all religions, all of whom came here to find work and a decent life, are saying it too. Only we palefaces can be racist in Righteous terms. The others just haven't tuned in to the message.

'Racist' is the battle cry of the Righteous. They think it still works, as the Dripper has demonstrated recently. Say 'racist' and the world clutches their collective handbag and goes 'Ooooh'. Not any more. Still they persist.

Mary Honeymonster, all in one post, claims that UKIP are the Sinn Fein to the BNP's IRA. She claims that the Lib Dems are Nazi sympathisers and the Tories, well we all know that Atilla the Hun was a Tory. In short, she sums up her world view as 'anyone who doesn't vote Labour is a racist'. She is an amazing example of pure Righteousness, and owns a prime example of an unoccupied head. Sell your brain, Mary. You won't notice the difference and neither will we. Since it's still in its original wrapping you'll get a decent sum for it. Oh, she also thinks all smokers are Tory voters. Put a bid in for that brain. It's never even had batteries installed.

Every time the BNP make a gain, there is shock and horror. Nobody seems to consider that there might be a reason people vote BNP. A reason other than the snazzy short hair, drainpipe jeans and ska music. A reason other than racism. I now know several who say they would vote BNP, though not in Scotland, and one of my long-time friends (currently in Wales) has joined the party. He's never had a skinhead, never beaten anyone up and he hates ska. His reasons are not racist.

His reasons mainly involve a) all three main parties being the same; b) out of control borders; c) the EU. I have to say I agree with his reasons. I have pointed out some potentially deeper problems but as he says, the BNP won't win the next election. If they get a couple of MP's it will certainly have the rest of them shitting ball bearings. On that, I can't argue and it would be worth seeing.

Doing down the BNP on racism charges does not work. The reason it doesn't work is that we have all been called racist now. Even when arguing on subjects that have no connection with race, any disagreement meets the chant 'racist'. The typical British response to this is not to hide away and cry a bit. It's to say 'Bollocks. If you want to call me racist, I'll vote for the ones you call racists'.

Douglas Carswell, whose constituency I am not in but if I was, I'd vote for him, has articulated the reason for the increased BNP support but I'm not sure he realises it. In his post on immigration he said:

It's time to reduce immigration into Britain. I'd personally like to see net settlement reduced to zero. Shout me down for saying so - but I know whose side my constituents are on.

Whose side his constituents are on. Indeed, he has measured the depth of feeling in his constituency. But can he deliver? Is it a core party policy to deliver what his constituents want?

It's core BNP policy. People want control of the borders, not control of their eating and drinking habits. Many British of all creeds and colours want this.

I don't want to drink my whisky like you do.
I don't need to spend my money but still do

Sums it up really. It's not what the BNP promise, unfortunately.

The Righteous, confronted with a BNP gain, run about waving their hands in the air and shrieking 'The Bogeymen are here!' They follow up with 'We must stop the BNP'. This naturally leads to 'If you don't vote Labour, you aren't helping us stop the BNP, therefore you support them, therefore you are racist'. Righteous logic comes from a different plane of existence.

Don your shiny hat and scream it out: Ma, Papa, we're all racists now.

I have issues with the BNP because they are, despite protestations to the contrary, seriously authoritarian and still at heart obsessed with 'outsiders'. I see them as the Local Shop in the League of Gentlemen, terrified that strangers might come to town. Not all immigration is bad (well I would say that, wouldn't I?) but it should be controlled. Very controlled. Douglas Carswell is right about that. The BNP are right about that part too. The BNP also want to get out of the EU, but the Tories don't. That puts the BNP one up on the Tories in many people's eyes. You might not like that. I don't like it. Many people do and their numbers are growing.

Labour have spent the last few years telling us all that the other parties are terrible, evil monsters who will enslave us while Labour will make us free and prosperous. Meanwhile, we dare not look a policeman in the eye and we're as prosperous as a plantation owner who negotiated contracts for bananas and planted onions. All other parties look good compared to Labour now. The Church of the Militant Elvis might beat them in the next election.

There is no surprise in the rising support for the BNP. Shouting them down is no good. Shouting down Tories is no good. Shouting down the Lib Dims is no good. Adding the qualifiers 'xenophobic' and 'right wing' to Libertarians is no good. Out here in real people land, we don't give a rat's arse about any of it. Only the Righteous luvvies, most of whom are employed by the Mouth of Gorgon, the BBC, worry about such things and they only care about their extortion racket that keeps them all in worthless jobs. We have all been called racist. We have all been called bigot. We have all been called Nazi and much, much more. Water off a lacquered silicone breast. Go on, say it again. Some of us remember when 'racist' really meant something but now it just means 'don't agree with labour/EU drones'. People don't care any more. They don't care at all.

So why is there so much surprise when people vote for what they want? Isn't that the basic idea behind democracy?

85 comments:

Gareth said...

The BNP want shot of outsiders and to exert more control.(As all left whingers are wont to do.)

The Righteous welcome immigrants here so there is someone to clean their house, sweep the street, wash their car and collect the rubbish.

Which is the more racist position?

Leg-iron said...

Both are racist positions but the patronising of the Righteous is, to me, worse.

The control aspect of the BNP is the more worrying part for me. They make clear that strangers are not welcome. The Righteous welcome them and then treat them as pets.

I'd rather be told 'No entry' than 'Come in, and do what we say'.

In short, I don't like either position.

Gringo said...

Excellent article. You quote Mary Honeymonster and l went to have a look at the BNP's opposition. This woman is a f'ing joke! She must be unable to talk with her foot in her mouth so often.

Have you seen her one and only campaign? Complete farce!

http://maryhoneyballmep.wordpress.com/ryan-air-campaign/

Anonymous said...

Fucking awesome Leg-Iron. I got in tough with the BNP to clarify their positon on gay rights and they confirmed that they are still in the stone age. Yet, even as a homosexual myself, I would still vote for the BNP over this rabble of a government anyday. That's how bad the Labour party have become. If we want an answer to the Islamist issue, who else are we supposed to vote for?

TheFatBigot said...

"If they get a couple of MP's it will certainly have the rest of them shitting ball bearings ... it would be worth seeing."

Methinks you spend too much of your time with infected faeces Mr Leg-Iron.

Leg-iron said...

No, I just eat too many ball bearings.

It costs a fortune in toilets.

Anonymous said...

The righteous and New Labour have done for the BNP what Max Clifford could never have done, even on overtime pay. They have hectored and bullied people into voting BNP. and effectively thrown open our borders. Did they expect no reaction?

If the BNP was just getting a handful of votes at elections these same clowns would be cooing patronisingly about how wonderful our democracy was that all shades of opinion could be represented.

it's either banned or compulsory said...

Great post Leg_Iron, as well as the "Racist" nonsense a lot of people now see the three mainstream parties as all part of the same thing. It may well be that the BNP gain from being seen as the best bet for a domestic protest vote, as with UKIP in European elections.
On a local level all three main parties use the facist legislation banning smoking, wheely bin crime, Road Safety Partnership revenue raising, nastily uniformed pretend police known as Civic Enforcement Officers handing out fines and " warnings " for what are at worst mildy anti social behaviours; being labelled Hate Criminals for expressing an opinion in private or some other form of inappropriate behaviour.

I expect that most people have by now either been a victim of this or know of someone else who has and have finally woken up to what is going on in this country.
I can see the BNP doing very well in at least local elections as a direct result of the above.

JuliaM said...

"All other parties look good compared to Labour now. "

You don't see it as purely a protest vote, then? Do you think people are actually voting for them after reading their manifesto?

Anonymous said...

In view of our experiences under new labour it would make sense to have a strong nationalist party to help keep the Lab/lib/con cartel under control. To force them to actually do something about unfettered immigration and to stop them prostrating us before EU. We know now where the threat to indivdual liberty comes from and it isnt just the "far right".

Beef Eating Surrender Monkeys said...

What's the problem with the BNP when compared with the corrupt, self-serving, un-representative bastards in notional charge at the moment?

I will be voting BNP. Yes, it's a vote for the UK and also a protest vote. I will feel good putting an X in the BNP box.

I think there will be many more like me.

The Economic Voice said...

Julia M - "Do you think people are actually voting for them after reading their manifesto?"

They're not reading the manifesto, they're not reading any manifesto.

Dazed and Confused said...

Manifesto eh?

Heres one created earlier by New Labour that makes a mockery of their claim to be a democratic party. I speak of course of Common Purpose which is an utter disgrace.

Anonymous said...

I was only born yesterday, but, speaking only of now, without being economical with the truth, or dwelling on the past, is there anything more wrong with the BNP (British National Party) than the:

SNP (Scottish National Party), or

Plaid Cymru (Full National Status for Wales party)?

Not to mention the other 32 accredited national parties in Europe (now known as the EU).

Or the hundreds (thousands?) of European National Parties of the Left (listed by broadleft.org).

Are the followers of His Holiness Saint Tony are the only people to whom the Truth has been revealed?

Or is it just the usual Brit thing of pig ignorance, misery and mortification of the flesh, whilst everybody standing in the queue for ferry tickets in Calais falls about laughing at the naivety of the prat beating himself with thorns?

Just thought I would ask.
DZ

Anonymous said...

The present bunch of cunts are useless. Lab/Con/LD have nothing to offer except more expense-troughing cuntedness.

Why not go out on a limb, these times don't come along very often. Interesting times call for interesting measures.

Fuck the lot of the vested party interests. I very dare you.

Guthrum said...

Got it in one- When the 'system' excludes and then allows 'landslides' with only 30% of the vote, the other 70% get pissed off

Dick Puddlecote said...

"People want control of the borders, not control of their eating and drinking habits."

Well put LI. The BNP would also repeal the smoking ban, by the way.

For Hairy Moneyballs to label UKIP racist for the flimsy reason that the BNP picked up their vote in their absence is quite hilarious. It's quite clear these people are sending an anti-EU vote, surely? As none of the 3 main parties are offering to take us out of the anti-democratic charade, it's a no-brainer.

If there has ever been a politician more inept and downright stupid as Moneyballs, I've yet to encounter them.

The Penguin said...

Whoever you vote for the government gets in.

All of them as corrupt as each other, just some are better at getting their snouts deeper in the trough than others.

The Penguin

Chalcedon said...

A friend of mine joined the BNP. For similar reasons to your friend plus he was disgusted at the entrapment and prosecution of the leader of that party. Obviously a political 'show' trial at the time.

Draper labelled me a racist on Labourshit when I disagreed with him. LMAO. Like I care. As you inferred, say it often enough and it just becomes meaningless.

Dick the Prick said...

Excellent post Leg-Iron. Anyway, must dash - my house Gook has gone and died on me - bitch!

WV: equal - dam right, even if they've just walked in yesterday. Well, probably better off as jump to the top of the benefits mountain.

Hennie said...

I have been realising, slowly, from listening to the Righteous, that I must be a racist.

I gather that the party that is for people like me is the BNP?

It's funny really, but I never thought I was a racist. In fact I prefer the blackist Tory voter to the whitest Socialist voter.

But the Righteous must be right so I'd better join the BNP.

Well, not actually join them, but they'll get my vote. I don't seem to have any option after being told whatj I really am.

Ampers said...

Yes, I agree wholeheartedly with your post leg-iron. One of your best and I will keep a copy in my wallet to show friends.

Actually that will be a nice way to weed out the ones who shouldn't be my friends.

And Hennie, or should I say Hendrik? I can guess where you come from. Is it Van Der Merwe, Potgieter or Viljoen? :-)

Anna Raccoon said...

A brilliant post Leg-iron, superb and absolutely spot on.

Bishop Brennan said...

Spot-on Leg-Iron.

St Tony and the Moron's legacy to the 'United' Kingdom?

Debt, bankruptcy and, for the first time ever, a credible fascist / communist party...

I always mean the opposite of what I post! said...

I agree with Guido Fawkes and Boris. We should let all illigal immigrants stay and pay taxes.

Old Holborn said...

Witness the recent attacks on Iain Dale and Guido Fawkes

Both labelled racist by Draper.

From Princes to poets, all of us are now "racists".

And as LI points out, the only place you won't be pointed at and ridiculed is the BNP.

I'm not a BNPer because I don't believe in "authority". It always has been abused and I see no new changes to suggest it would not be the same or worse under the BNP.

I'm working on a post based around the abolition of ALL borders, globally. After all, we don't ban people from coming from the countryside into cities, do we?

Gareth said...

Don't give them ideas OH! Westminster shit itself when the Countryside Alliance came to town.

The Righteous could turn people away from the BNP in a heartbeat if they started admitting the BNP were just as socialist as they are. But they are painted as a threat. Pretend prohibition never stopped anything and gives the BNP more power than they deserve.

It's hard to see a sensible way forward. The big three parties are all statists. The black sheep of politics are statists. The various libertarian, small state parties are unable to get their message across to a populous that has got Stockholm Syndrome and got it bad.

We are being held to ransom by the State in all it's forms but have come to believe we cannot do without them.

Guthrum said...

Ampers- definately a Van Der Merwe, the NP did a great job in RSA didn't they, but all held on to their British passports

Anonymous said...

Guthrum 12.48

The people driving the bus in RSA in those days were not entitled to British passports and didn't have them.
DZ

Anonymous said...

Very good post Leg-Iron & 100% correct. Manifesto? Like the New Liebore ones for 1997 & ever since, promising to restore the pensions link that Maggie threw out & promising an EU Referendum? 12 years later, link not restored, Referendum denied. Those facts say all I need to know about party manifestos! I too shall be putting my X in the box for the BNP. No offence intended, but even the Asians are voting for them now.

Dick the Prick said...

Education, education, fleece and bankrupt the tax payer, kill a million Iraquis, education.

PS - anyone would think union leaders were having an election - errr.... what's that? They are?

Harrithebastard said...

Would Dolly be requiring an ambulance or will he make his own way to the heart clinic?


Gordon Brown warned: 'BNP could win first seats in European Parliament'

Anonymous said...

Leg Iron, the biggest crime of all is that your writings don't reach a wider audience. A brilliant post as usual.

Like many other contributors to this thread, I will probably vote BNP - and like many of them I don't really care what they might become if they ever gained power. We've all seen how authoritarian government acts. If we had the same, BUT control over our borders, and not subsidising the corrupt EU would it really be any worse?

Emigration is now something I think about every day, the problem is where? Is there a website discussing suitable countries to consider? If not it's about time one was setup. I don't want to take the cowards option and "bail out" - this is still a beautiful country - but I'm not going to spend the rest of my life being watched, controlled, and dictated to.

Even the most optimistic readers of this blog, and others like it, seem to accept that far too much damage has been done now. Even if a completely new party got in, they would never remain long enough to put right 20+ years of deliberate neglect.

K. McEgan. said...

For an (otherwise) intelligent bloggers who have become a ras clart. 9% of the average English genome (I'm guessing you're an average Brit) is sub-saharan African. Which tenth of you are you going to "send back"?

Anonymous said...

McEgan - the illegal bit. And which part did you vote for to allow every cunt in?

Anonymous said...

And how many of those cunts have dead in the Somme?

Wrinkled Weasel said...

Another eloquent anatomy of the body politic.

Clearly from other comments, people agree with the idea that the use of the word "racist" has turned it into a generalised form of ritual abuse.

I think we have had exchanges about the way in which linguistic hegemony is as important to political factions as policies.

As Orwell said, the idea (of Newspeak) is to restrict discourse to the point where is it theoretically impossible to hold an opposing point of view because the words no longer exist to articulate it.

The point about the BNP has spawned, as you quite brilliantly say, is an "I'm Spartacus" moment.

K. McEgan. said...

Dear Anon,(don't you have a nom de guerre?)I have never voted in the UK.I have what Sartre would term "clean hands".Oh,dead on the Somme.Dunno.But when I was at Ypres in November whole fucking lines of graves had "Singh,Patel,Ali..." on 'em.See son a bullet don't care what colour you are.

SPUD FACED CHANCER said...

mckeegan a typical arrogant,know it all,pakney wanka?
Carry on m8,full fucking stop!
we are not worthy

electro-kevin said...

Too much talk.

they're justified and they're ancient said...

well done gridiron! you've just set out the childish reasoning behind which the average briton casts his bnp vote in a secret ballot: 'middle class liberals keep calling me racist so i ight as well do what what i've always really wanted to do and actively support bnp...just i'll do it anonymously and blame polly toynbee for it. it woz the liberals wot started all this anti-english racism. i'm just acting out of self-defence'.

i think you'll find that 2nd and 3rd generation immigrants' thinking on border control is equally perverse - in that they hate their parents for bringing them into this old dump.

what a load of reactionary irresponsible fucking bollocks.

spark up said...

17:29

yessir. there's no limit to which these people will go to hide their racism from their own consciousness. what kind of world would it be where we were not even permitted to chant the accusation 'racist'. god i yearn for the good old days where evil bastards roamed the land without being at all au fait with the 'r' word. ah! the days of innocence. old holborn and his mates are a bunch of fifth columnist political correctionistas and they shag polly toynbee undercover of their favourite broadsheet at weekends.

Anonymous said...

K. McEgan. said...
For an (otherwise) intelligent bloggers who have become a ras clart. 9% of the average English genome (I'm guessing you're an average Brit) is sub-saharan African. Which tenth of you are you going to "send back"?

We share 50% of our genome with bananas.

Dick the Prick said...

It'd be ace to just let anyone if they'd secured a job or with the proviso that folks wouldn't claim benefits until a given amount of tax had been paid but unfortunately this is the real world.

The UN have recently stated that most heroin comes through the Balkans along with Albanian gangsters, a significant proportion of South Asians have neither will nor incentive to integrate with obvious (and legitimate perhaps) disgust at British foreign policy, with Equitorial Guinea being a cocaine ran state, with moderate voices being drowned by their own extremist cohorts etc.

And the retort for these complex and disturbing issues is to call me a racist because I'm not too inclined to look after foreigners who rip up their passports and flush them down the bog in transit to Blighty (if it was a real passport etc) is banal.

Is it my fault that border and benefit systems have been fucked or the political parties for letting them be fucked?

I don't live in London and don't have kids so we ain't gonna get stabbed. I'm quite rich, well educated, healthy, have a good job and a nice house - but why should the politics of challenging this illigitimate behaviour mean that i'm not quite liberal?

Real politics demands that governments represent their constituents not lecture them. And WTF is the EU other than fooked up ginger beer.

Leg-iron said...

K. McEgan:

That line doesn't work either. Never has. Bloggers, on the whole, are aware of the origin of man and migration over the ages. There aren't many of us.

A large chunk of the population believes in creation. A large chunk is illiterate. A larger chunk has had little to no education. Of the educated, few took biology even as far as GCSE, and at that level this subject is not covered.

Tell them '10% of your genes come from Africa' and they will laugh at you. They simply don't believe it. They don't know what genes are and many of them can't spell DNA. Clever arguments have never worked on them. Simple arguments do.

The BNP apply simple arguments, while the Righteous only ever try the 'guilt trip' using complex reasoning based on things these people have no understanding of.

The people I'm talking about are not stupid. They include lawyers, mathematicians, anyone who didn't study biology.

They simply don't know about human dispersal theory from that far back. Few know the details of it (and I don't either) because it's a specialised science. As far as they know, all this 'out of Africa' is spin.

You might as well use the Hoyle and Wickramasinge 'Panspermia' argument. In that, all of the ancestors of all life on Earth came from outer space on a rock. Every scrap of life, anywhere on the planet, is an immigrant according to that.

So where would you like us to be sent?

Oh, and my recent ancestry is Italian. If you want to send me back there at taxpayer's expense, sounds like a good deal to me.

Leg-iron said...

They're justified and they're ancient:

I am not a BNP supporter or voter. One thing you might want to consider though, when attempting to persuade people to your point of view, is that insulting them into it rarely works. Calm and reasoned argument does work. Who's using calm reason in the political world, and who is screaming insults at anyone they disagree with?

Childish reasoning? In many cases, yes. When dealing with an entire population it is important to remember that only 2% of them are able to join Mensa. Most neither know nor care what a 'manifesto' is. They are persuaded in their vote by chats in pubs and by friendly people appearing on their doorsteps. They are not persuaded to vote for people who tell them they must feel guilty for everything in the world, all the time, and if they don't agree then they must be racists.

I know, in this politically correct world, it's evil and probably racist of me to point out that many people out there aren't really all that bright. It's true anyway. They are not bad people, they just can't deal with complexity the way most of those you meet on the Internet can.

Most people are persuaded by agreeing and sympathising with their problems and then by proposing simple solutions. Try it yourself.

Then try telling them they are disgusting racists for even suggesting the existence of the problem and see how far you get.

The rise of the BNP is not down to their policy. It's down to their far better understanding of the people they talk to.

The people out there might not be filling in Sudoku puzzles in under three minutes but they are not drooling dolts.

The BNP are not stupid either. Far from it. Shouting insults while they present a calm face... what did you think the result would be?

Leg-iron said...

Spark up:

Hide our racism from our own consciousness? In other words, we are all sinners even though we don't know it and we must repent and be saved.

Guilt and original sin (original racism?) as means of population and thought control.

All I can say is... Inquisition. Nothing new in the methods, nothing at all.

You can call me heretic/racist if you wish. It won't stop me talking. It won't even make me falter. There is no guilt left here. It's all been used up by Righteous haranguing over the years.

I've been called many terrible names and I don't care at all any more. Keep them coming.

Dick the Prick said...

Mr Leg-Iron, the 'Panspermia' argument isn't that daft. I've always liked it in that comets carry isotopes that would be unlikely to react in temperate conditions on earth naturally. Kinda gets a bit dodgy with extremophile bacteria which can live in volcanoes!!!! So probably just sped things up a bit.

The best thing though is that mitochondria which are essential for all animals are a bacteria which became integrated into cells and became the engines able to catabolize energy - cool.

Also, and apols for not asking, but I copied much of your main thread onto Biassed BBC but with obvious hat tip - not Lord Archer.

Gareth said...

"you can call me heretic/racist if you wish. It won't stop me talking. It won't even make me falter. There is no guilt left here. It's all been used up by Righteous haranguing over the years."

You have resigned yourself to the label of racist. To the eyes of the Righteous that means you are racist and they should do something to make you change. That their words mean nothing to you doesn't occur to them.

The Righteous must be a bit thick. They play into the hands of the BNP all too often by appeasing the race relations industry and by imagining offence where none could reasonably be taken. They simply do not grasp how divisive their policies have been.

These are second or third generation Righteous though. They have successively (and successfully) perverted the modesty, stoicism and reserved character that Britain was once built on and turned it into servile meekness towards outsiders.

If they stopped telling us what we shouldn't say and think, or eat and do, perhaps we wouldn't.

spark up said...

19:16

sorry to hear about all the haranguing over the years mr leg-iron - it seems to have left you with irredeemable psychological scarring. from happy-go-lucky all-round genial chappy to bitter twisted racist, a tragic and tortuous journey, hounded every inch of the way by rabid liberals. a shocking story if i ever heard one. i am no authority on christian theology, but 'original racism' reeks of racism without responsibility - i'm sure that suits you fine, sir. i agree with they're justified and they're ancient, your standpoint is an immature and irresponsible reaction to liberalism - it is simply a playground retort devoid of internal logic. your sympathy with bnp border-control-policy is (forgive my french) racist; there is only one possible 'reason' for legislating for the control of something which is quite plainly beyond all control (ie. human migration) - and that 'reason' is to precipitate millions of pre-existing UK workers into fearful illegality and then exploit them mercilessly. there is no minimum wage for illegals, no redress in a court of law and no legal exit route. apparently my words will not burn you, but i pray they may give you cause for some thought. if they don't, frankly i don't give damn...i'm just here to attract a bit of traffic to my website - there's shit all on there, but if you wouldn't mind clicking on it, i might make enough for the next packet of fags.

Leg-iron said...

Spark up.

I said I don't care if you call me racist. I didn't say I was one. But, if it suits you to believe I am psychologically scarred because I don't agree 100% with you, then please, be my guest. If you wish to consider me irresponsible and immature, you have, in my view, every right to do so.

That's my stance on free speech, by the way. Believe what you like, say what you like, I might disagree but I will not stop you saying it. Call me 'Stumpy' if you want. call me 'Crip' or 'Spaz'. The names I've been called have no effect at all. Compared to me, a duck's back is as absorbent as a sponge.

I said I agreed that immigration should be controlled. I most certainly don't agree with the BNP method of doing it. That would have people whose families have been here longer than mine suddenly finding themselves out. I could never vote for that. The thing I tried to put across is, most people don't see it that way.

On immigration control, I think we should start now. Those who are British citizens must remain British citizens, but we can't take that many more. Certainly we can't take those who come for benefits and those who claim they are seeking asylum after passing through the whole of Europe to get here.

Most of the bus drivers in my area are Polish. Great bunch of guys, hard drinkers and good company and I was very glad of them during the recent bad weather. They can drive through snow the UK has never experienced. So I don't propose sending them away.

I have taught Muslim students on various courses at university level. Two, in particular, I recall because they produced enough work within an eight week project to generate a refereed scientific publication (with my name following theirs). I was sorry to see them go home. This applies to every Chinese student I have come across also. I had to insist that they take time off! A department full of those people would be top of the research tables in no time.

Call me racist if you wish. It will not make me so. Call me deranged or in-denial or twisted or bitter to your heart's content. I am not, nor will I be, those things.

That is the point I am trying to make. You won't make me believe I am a closet racist or psychologically flawed by saying it to me over and over. You will, however, turn a lot of people to the BNP by saying those things to them. That is what you have been doing, you and others.

I have not the slightest belief that anything I say will change your mind, nor do I, like you, care.

I say it anyway. Call me names if you wish, take the Righteous moral high ground if you wish. It won't affect me because we've met before. Many times, in many places. You weren't always there but the thoughts you express were. In pretty much the same words and with exactly the same delivery.

One of us has been indoctrinated. I make no judgement, I leave that to others.

Leg-iron said...

Gareth - a prescient post!

They are more than second or third generation. These have been around for centuries and the methods have never changed.

Disagree, and there's something wrong with you. You are naive, immature, insane, you are denying the basic horribleness of your nature and must undergo penance so you can be a Real Person again.

These are the methods of the Inquisition and although they have never been changed, those who use them can't see it.

Nor will they.

they're justified and they're ancient said...

leg-iron 19:05

1. i am aware that you are not a bnp supporter, you have mentioned this twice already today - but you are an a1 bnp appeaser.

2. i am not trying to 'persuade' anyone to do or think anything - i am replying to your provocative internet post.

3. i am not in a pub.

4. i do not wish to agree and sympathize with people who imagine problems they do not have and then superimpose them on problems they have created for themselves. the only simple solution i would propose is for them to fuck off and find another country. if british people had been able to make a go of this country there would have been no need for any immigration.

5. the only thing the bnp understand about british people is that they are racist and there are potentially rich pickings to be had in terms of votes. what they do not appear to understand is that inside every anti-racist there is a deeply repressed bnp voter struggling to break out. don't say i didn't help you.

6. personally, i find racist views an insult to anyone of normal intelligence. try proposing complete relaxation of immigration controls to a bnp supporter and see his calm measured reponse - not in my experience.

7. i agree with sparked up - you wish to be a racist in everything but name. you wish to excuse your racism by laying it at the doorsteps of liberals - you do not wish to take reponsibility for your longstanding views. what happened to the good old-fashioned 'i'm a fucking racist and proud of it' racist. they don't make racists like they used to. say "racist" to a goose-stepper these days and they go into a two-hour whinge on righteousness. never mind the bollocks.

Leg-iron said...

Dick - the origins of life on Earth are far from a settled matter. Miller's experiments produced basic amino acids but no more than that. Life could have come from another world although that just sets the origin back a step. Life could have been created, but that just sets the origin back a step. Life could have originated here and nowhere else, which seems unlikely on the scales we're talking about.

Until we have solid ground, science, (real science) insists that all theories must be considered and then disproved one by one, until we are left with the most likely to be true. That still doesn't mean it is absolute truth, just that it's the most likely.

That's the thing about science. Many think it's about absolutes whereas mostly it's about 'most likely based on current knowledge' scenarios.

Panspermia can't be ruled out. If it turns out to be real, then it shoots the 'we are all African' argument right up the arse.

Oh, and you can copy anything I write anywhere, even if it's just to make fun of it ;)

I have enough copyrighted stuff to be going on with, out in the non-blog world.

spark up said...

00:21

leg-iron

you say you aren't a bnp supporter yet go to great trouble making a case for voting for them.

you value immigrant imput into this country yet wish to protect us from this positive influence.

you say you are not racist yet sympathize with bnp voters and hold strong views on immigration.

you have been liberally indoctrinated by both the bnp and the 'righteous' in good and equal measure - to the extent that you pay lip-service to pub-racism whilst being sensitive to the label 'racist'.

are you a bit mixed-up perhaps?

Leg-iron said...

1. i am aware that you are not a bnp supporter, you have mentioned this twice already today - but you are an a1 bnp appeaser.

An appeaser? Me? I appease nobody. I have tried to analyse why you Righteous are losing to the BNP. You don't want to hear it, okay, you don't have to listen. I hope other parties will listen and work out what they have to do before we all have to shave our heads and tattoo 'cut here' around our necks.

Most of the BNP's support comes not from those you love to term racist but from people who have not read their manifesto. All they know is what they have been told. Your response is to call them racist and alienate them further. So do the Cameroids and the Lib Dims, and even some UKIP members. These are scared people looking for someone to help them and you turn them away to the waiting arms of the BNP. For pointing that out, you hate me. Carry on. Hate is what you do best.

2. i am not trying to 'persuade' anyone to do or think anything - i am replying to your provocative internet post.

You are trying to persuade me that I am a racist even though I don't realise it and that I must be re-educated in the Way of Righteousness. You have, and always will, fail.

3. i am not in a pub.

Neither am I. There aren't many left.

4. i do not wish to agree and sympathize with people who imagine problems they do not have and then superimpose them on problems they have created for themselves. the only simple solution i would propose is for them to fuck off and find another country. if british people had been able to make a go of this country there would have been no need for any immigration.

On that, we are in broad agreement although we differ, I am sure, on who is responsible for it.

The British are now a people of 'someone else's fault' where they expect to be given jobs, not look for them. Where they believe they should all be on company director's salaries rather than take a low-pid job and work their way up. As you say, they can fuck off. Unfortunately the benefits system keeps them safe from having to bother.

People imagine problems, they imagine that the Muslims have banned Christmas when it was nothing to do with them. It was the Righteous. They imagine that immigrants are taking their jobs when they had no jobs to start with, and would not have done the jobs those immigrants do anyway. I neither agree nor sympathise. I analyse. What that analysis tells me is that these people will go with the BNP because they promise to do something about the problem, whether it's real or not.

Do you explain to people, real people, why these problems are imaginary? Or do you just call them 'racist'? Which do you think is better?

5. the only thing the bnp understand about british people is that they are racist and there are potentially rich pickings to be had in terms of votes. what they do not appear to understand is that inside every anti-racist there is a deeply repressed bnp voter struggling to break out. don't say i didn't help you.

All the British are racist? You really believe that. don't you? So why are the BNP not in power as we speak? Surely the entirely racist Brits must be clamouring for them.

Every anti-racist is a potential BNP voter? I have to ask this - are you Mary Honeyball? Your logic is as bizarrely twisted as hers.

What the BNP understand, and what any party hoping to defeat them must understand, is the psychology of real people, not that of Guardianistas and pretty champagne socailists. For you, there is little point in elucidating the mindset of people who have never seen champagne and for whom whisky is a posh drink.

You delight in thinking of the BNP as neanderthal thugs. Believe me, they are not. There are some dangerously intelligent people in there and just ignoring that fact is enough to hand them votes.

6. personally, i find racist views an insult to anyone of normal intelligence. try proposing complete relaxation of immigration controls to a bnp supporter and see his calm measured reponse - not in my experience.

Racist views are not held by anyone of normal intelligence. Nor is the view that anyone who disagrees is automatically a racist. As for complete relaxation of immigration laws... isn't that the current situation? Isn't that the (real or perceived) problem that is boosting BNP support at the moment?

7. i agree with sparked up - you wish to be a racist in everything but name. you wish to excuse your racism by laying it at the doorsteps of liberals - you do not wish to take reponsibility for your longstanding views. what happened to the good old-fashioned 'i'm a fucking racist and proud of it' racist. they don't make racists like they used to. say "racist" to a goose-stepper these days and they go into a two-hour whinge on righteousness. never mind the bollocks.

Because I say I am not racist, I am an apprentice racist but I am in self-denial. Fantastic. I have never been called a racist-in-waiting before.You even refer to long-standing views for which I must be denying responsibility because they were never there, except they were but they were subconscious.

Don't you get it yet? Your attempts to discredit me as a racist are exactly the same as those you use on everyone else who disagrees. You have set up furious tirades against the BNP, a party that few knew existed before you publicised it. You have driven people to them in droves.

So, carry on, call me names and the more public the better.

You might even persuade me to stand for election, but I won't be representing (or 'appeasing', ha ha) the BNP. I certainly won't be stnding for you.

I would never have considered that, if not for you, O Righteous.

incorrectly installed filter said...

00:21

On immigration control, I think we should start now.

immigration controls have been in existence for many tears now, leg-iron. starting them now would be a bit late - since people are now rightly thinking about emigrating from depression uk.

Leg-iron said...

Hello again spark-up. Please try to make your personas different so it looks like more than one of you.

you say you aren't a bnp supporter yet go to great trouble making a case for voting for them.

I go to a lot of trouble to point out why voting for them would be a bad idea. My aim is to point out their methods, as well as yours. To me, you are both undesirable outcomes.

you value immigrant imput into this country yet wish to protect us from this positive influence.

I am immigrant input into this country. I have no intention of protecting anyone from anything. I am not in any position to do so. I make suggestions and that is all.

you say you are not racist yet sympathize with bnp voters and hold strong views on immigration.

I do not sympathise with the BNP position. I understand, not sympathise, with those who vote for them. I realise why they are doing that. You assume it is because they all desire the red braces and shaven-headed look. You are very, very wrong. You will never understand that.

You assume I am racist because I have a view on immigration which does not involve opening the borders and having no control. You must spend a lot of time calling people racists.

you have been liberally indoctrinated by both the bnp and the 'righteous' in good and equal measure - to the extent that you pay lip-service to pub-racism whilst being sensitive to the label 'racist'.

I have broken indoctrination by the Righteous in myself and others. The BNP have never indoctrinated me. I have never regarded racism or fascism as a good thing or even an excusable thing. Because I study the reasons people take these paths, you assume I must take them myself. As always, your simplistic world view is wrong.

You have attempted to portray me as some kind of proto-racist, someone who denies the evil in their soul and who rejects assimilation by the collective. You have told me I am psychologically flawed and a BNP appeaser. You now say I am sensitive to being called racist when I have repeatedly said I don't care if you call me something a sewage farm would reject.

are you a bit mixed-up perhaps?

No. But, good try, Righteous.

Leg-iron said...

Incorrectly installed filter said:

immigration controls have been in existence for many tears now

A typo, yes, but apposite, I think.

Yes, emigration is the next big problem. Those with skills and money will go. Burberry-clad chavs will stay. Who will pay the taxes then? Where do all those benefits come from?

Stop the freebies and the only ones who immigrate will be those who want to contribute, and before you chime in, spark-up, I don't care what colour skin they have.

Hibbo said...

The BNP are a racist party - read their manifesto; they want a white-only Britain. I do disagree with that. As for them being right-wing, that is simply not true, they are a left-wing authoritarian party.

I am absolutely all for control of our borders and immigration, and I want us out of the EU. I also want to see the end of ALL religious control, no one should have a voice based on their superstitions.

If the Libertarian Party can get their message out to enough people then it's certain they could take A LOT of these votes.

PS. I am not implying that everyone who votes BNP is racist, but you must be aware of their wishes.

Leg-iron said...

Hibbo:

Hardly anyone who votes BNP is racist. They have not read the manifesto. They think they're voting for 'British jobs for British workers' and no more than that.

What is worrying is that if the BNP or any other authoritarian party do get in, the structure for a police-state is all there ready for them. Courtesy of Labour.

Libertarian ideas need to get out of the internet and into the pubs and community centres. I can do a little of that but I'm not the most mobile of people.

I'm not a party member but if it comes down to it, Libertarians are the best bet for most of us now.

If I ever did stand for an MP slot, I'd join and stand as a Libertarian but not here. Here, I'd be up against the Oily Fish himself and he can't be topped in this constituency. Ol' Salmond is a certain winner here.

Never thought about it, you know, until Spark-Up forced me to.

Dazed and Confused said...

Leg iron:

Far from just standing as a Libertarian candidate, in my eyes anyway, you'd be it's natural successor to Ian P.J. as party leader.

I do imagine that you'd have to join the party first though, so I am getting ahead of myself somewhat.

Leg-iron said...

Dazed and Confused:

Led Zep fan though I am, there is an issue with me being leader of anything and it's that people like a leader they can bear to look at.

So I might become a member (and the Righteous are pushing me into it) but I'm unlikely to ever be leader.

Besides, I read Ian PJ's posts and have not disagreed yet. So I'd support him as a leader if I did join, rather than compete.

it's either banned or compulsory said...

I vote for Leg-Iron.
spark up 22.37 said
there is only one possible 'reason' for legislating for the control of something which is quite plainly beyond all control (ie. human migration) - and that 'reason' is to precipitate millions of pre-existing UK workers into fearful illegality...
Convoluted thinking as always from the Righteous, you make your arguments in such a roundabout way that it is difficult to understand exactly what point you are trying to make but here goes.
"Anyone who wants to strengthen controls on incoming migrants is
A) Racist ( yawn )
B) Asking for the impossible, you state as self-evident fact that control of migration is not possible when in fact it is and has usually been the case, fighting such controls is what wars are generally about ( lebensraum and all that ).
C) Is demanding the removal of anyone whose family has been here less than (X) number of generations. Where is that demand ? who is demanding it ? Typically of your sort you put statements into the mouths of others that were not made.
By such a statement you spark up are attempting to instill fear into "millions of pre-existing UK workers" hoping that in their fear they will support you and yours.

Rob Farrington said...

'Spark Up', or 'Zorg the Magnificent,Devourer of Worlds', or whatever you choose to call yourself next, you are SO right about we British being racist!

If I'd known that my ex-wife was half Pakistani, I would never have married her in the first place. It completely escaped my notice for ten years that she had darker skin than me! Oh, the deceitful harridan...

defender said...

While our country goes to shit paid for by you, directed by the liblabcon, some of you are more concerned about the BNP.
Just what the liblabcon work so hard to do.
Such paranoia , worry and hand wringing about a percieved threat rather than the real threat.
If you are so worried just continue voting and supporting the same old liblabcon.
Here is a fact, not one of the problems facing this country have anything to do with the BNP.
You have been put into a position where the biggest insult anyone can make is to call you a raciest. Fucking grow up, get that chip off your shoulder and grow a pair.
I am as racist as a chinaman in china, an african in africa, an arab in Saudi, an afgan in afganistan, a japanese in japan, so where is the problem. What this problem with white people thinking its all up to us to be the most perfect people on earth, that without us the world would be a better place for mankind. Guilt trip, guilt trip, guilt trip.
You want utopia, tell me where you can find it. Get real.
I am proud to be British, I am proud of our values, i am proud that we are of a nature where we will help those who need it but I will be fucked if somebody calling me a racist will have me jumping through hoops.

Guthrum said...

Defender

The BNP has not got a monopoly on being patriotic

What it has got a monoply on is being a authoritarian, pro hanging, pro flogging party, racist party.

The only thing that we agree on is that the Lab/Con/Social Democrat elitist coalition has failed.

sobers said...

An awesome post. I wish I could vote for someone with this level of understanding.

defender said...

Guthrum I am so glad to hear that you are patriotic and at least we agree on at least one thing. Thats a start for which I am encouraged no end.
Pro hanging, I turn to the Libertains for piano wire, or is that just for bravado.
Flogging, wouldnt you want to see those of the rightous who dont get strung up flogged?
And as for raciest dont you know that being white you are defacto a raceist from birth, so that is not our fault, a birth defect I suppose.
As for authorian I would like to know more about what you mean.

Guthrum said...

Defender- In case you have not read your party's manifesto

http://bnp.org.uk/2008/08/policies-manifesto/

You propose a siege economy, which presumes we can sell to the world, but not them to us.

How many British jobs do you think that is going to preserve. the Germans tried this 1933-39.

At the end of the day, to avoid national impoverishment everybody would have to work for the State.

You would finance a first class Health service out of a siege economy- rubbish.

Law and Order consists of Hanging and flogging and letting the Police loose (in my opinion they need bringing under control, not privatised into ACPO)

Libertarians are free to do anything they want as long as they cause no harm to others- piano wire is not in my armoury, can't speak for others.

Your party is Left Authoritarian, with window dressing 'policies' around your first and foremost policy a white Britain.

You want the death penalty for Terrorists caught red handed or by DNA. All authoritarian regimes define anybody who disagrees with them as 'terrorists'. Stalinists did it, Nazis did it, Peronistas did etc etc.

the BNP is a party that thrives on fear, and will create more fear.

Libertarians are for minimal government, and trade with everybody.

Thats what makes the world go around Defender my old fruit.

Michael said...

All this talk of manifestos - the current lot didn't stick by their manifesto promises so who's to say the BNP would stick to theirs?

defender said...

Guthrum, seige economy, with a 2 trillion pound millstone around our necks what do you think we have got. Think balance of payments vis a vis nothing to pay it with.
We make virtually nothing anybody else needs and what we do produce is too expensive, think £ against £.
Letting the police loose, us, with the shit we have had from them over the years. No chance.
Not only the BNP want the death sentence, have a poll of the average person and see what you find.

I think you believe we have sat in a room to conspire against the British people. You cant be serious.
I will tell you for nothing how we go about making policy.
What we do is ask the people what it is that is pissing them off the most, we listen then we act on it. Its so simple but so effective. And its very hard to get wrong. Thats democracy.
With regards to the other stuff you write on about, not being an expert or anything, I feel you have a paranoia. You see dangers which are a figment of your imagination and not see dangers which are real.
Sorry to take up your time.

Guthrum said...

I feel you have a paranoia. You see dangers which are a figment of your imagination and not see dangers which are real.

And you think I am paranoid !

defender said...

Time will tell in the end , we could revisit this in 6 months and see whats what then, if you like.

one of my worst enemies is a big black bastard said...

07:24

you stupid cunt

spark up said...

leg-iron 01:51

Hello again spark-up. Please try to make your personas different so it looks like more than one of you.

apparently people who are political with a small 'p' all look the same to you

spark up said...

19:31

re: your worst enemy

perhaps leg-iron could persuade him to a more amenable point of view by agreeing and sympathising with his problems

Dick the Prick said...

The argument should be shifted to why the government or politicians need to get involved and why is my hapiness being traded with my money?

I can distinguish between someone who says 'hello' or someone who punches me. Bastards come in all colours.

People shouldn't over extend philosophy and stop being so snotty.

What works, works.

This bullshit has ended and it's lack of governmental oversight in financial matters that have screwed them and complete micro management of how us lot fart about together.

D'oh and Ha Ha in one stoopid move.

I seriously love ZaNu Labour - I challenge all of us lot to be as phenomenally shite.

I heard a great quote the other day 'your enemies don't betray you'. Bounce that with the new politician who looks at the opposition benches and says 'I wanna crush the enemy' to which the old horse replies ' they ain't the enemy son, look behind you'.

WV: bring - yeah, I am at the market.

Xenon said...

There appears to be a surfeit of commentors that cannot use the 'shift' key.

See what happens when monkeys are allowed access to computers?

Next they'll be writing Dickens... 'It was the best of times, it was the blurst of times!'

You stupid monkey!

Hey wait a minute, isn't that specism?

I hereby accuse myself of being a specist. Oh yes I am and no mistake, guv. You got me bang to rights wiv dat one der.

I order myself to go on a specism awareness course in order to fully understand the world through the minkeys (sorry, monkeys eyes).

Oohhoo, look, a banana!

I am cured... my brother droogs...


wv=prokcol - I'll take a tab if I may.

Leg-iron said...

Spark up:

perhaps leg-iron could persuade him to a more amenable point of view by agreeing and sympathising with his problems

On the other hand, perhaps you could read what he wrote again, after looking up the meaning of 'sarcasm'.

I have a new post up, just for you. And yes, I am deliberately provoking you.

Ayrdale said...

Can us expats keep some hope alive that England/Britain is fighting back ?

You'll need to.

Our last commissar/PM has been booted out, but she's in line for an influential top job at the UN, where her bossy tendencies will have even more sway.

O.H. loved that post, and have featured it at
http://mickysmuses.blogspot.com/2009/02/sorrow-and-pity.html

Ayrdale said...

Further to "We're all racist now", I wear a T shirt that anticipated your column;

"End Racism, Kill Everyone"

spark up said...

leg-iron 00:21, 01:35

I said I don't care if you call me racist. I didn't say I was one.

well frankly, i tired of chanting 'racist' a couple of years ago when i realized we've all been 'genetically entranced' to think skindeep by default, and i agree that taking umbrage at racial discrimination is about as much use as getting touchy about four-eyed wankers (easily said by a myopic white, i know), but racism is still a condition which deserves comment and this blog gives exceptional cause...and if you told me you weren't a racist, my instincts would call you a liar.

as for people being driven into the arms of the bnp for a reassuring cuddle - i'm not bothered; as you say, it's a democratic country and it's best to know where everyone stands.

i appreciate the change of weight, from front foot to back, in your summing up on the racism of the ripper, but you're still obsessed by border controls...against what and why?

spark up said...

04:17

By such a statement you spark up are attempting to instill fear into "millions of pre-existing UK workers" hoping that in their fear they will support you and yours.

i'm talking about the general principle of introducing immigration legislation - which affects those who fall outside it, but who feel compelled to come here to make ends meet and feed families back home in countries historically exploited by the uk, past and present. fair enough, it's effect is greater on those arriving here after the introduction of legislation, but the natural force of migration means that they would have come here anyway. many migrants are casual or seasonal workers who rely on employment here, but who may fall outside the strict quotas of visas available for such work - even though there are still jobs to be filled. this kind of 'casual' immigration has and always will go on regardless of legality - because people need the money.

wars are usually associated with economic downturn and immigrants often simply the scapegoats. if border-controls worked, why is there always so much political hysteria about illegal immigrants?

they're justified and they're ancient said...

01:35

racism has an unwritten manifesto, if people want to vote bnp there is nothing that anyone can do about it - the main political parties in the uk are also racist, yet diplomatically conceal this, and so appeal to those who conceal their racism likewise. i'm not concerned which party people vote for, nor am i trying to persuade you that you're racist - i'm telling you, and i'm not forcing you to listen. if someone denies responsibility for long-existing problems in his own country and prefers to blame immigrants, i would call them racist.

yes, let's leave intelligence out of this, because as you say there are some very intelligent in the bnp - it's just they don't want to use their intelligence for reason, but would rather use it to find ways of dumping their unsolved emotional problems onto others.

i understand immigration rules to be very tight at the moment - that is because this policy is a major vote winner and has been for many years.

the bnp need no publicity from me, and you know it. you slyly enjoy criticizing parties for their counterproductive political correctness, whilst being fully aware that, in doing so, you are advertizing the bnp. if you are not supporting the bnp, it is because you are far more dangerous - you are an underground racist, and a liar on all levels.

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